Should a pastor be permitted to have a beer once in while?

[Calypsis4]

You said, ..."the brand of wine Mogen David... I'm sure that if one did not want to partake of the wine for whatever reason they would not be looked upon any differently."

Brother, it's not how others look upon them that counts! You say that making me wonder if you would (or ever have) warned the ex-drunks and/or new converts about the fact that you are giving them an intoxicating beverage in your communion? I would find that rather disturbing.

 

[Calypsis4]

No, you are wrong. My dad happened to be a police officer in the Oklahoma City Police until he retired after 25 yrs. He wrote many tickets to drunken law breakers who were DUI. Both the writing on the tickets and the language in the courts used the word 'intoxicated' & it was often used in describing their mental condition while driving. That word 'intoxicated' referred to those who were inebriated by fermented liquid. The point: to be intoxicated is to be poisoned.That is why the perceptions and reactions of the mind are affected in such a negative way that police action is necessary for those who violate the law. But while man's law places a certain percentage upon what can be legally imbibed without prosecution, the Bible does not.

There are different degrees of intoxication but that poisoning begins with the first drink. You will not escape the toxic definition in this matter because it is a part of our law and is still being enforced to this day.

I doesn't matter to me what your 'interpretation' is on the matter: the warning in Prov. 23 is given and your position effectively negates that warning. You don't have an 'interpretation' you merely dismiss the warning ...for whatever personal reason you have. Apparently, in your mind, there is no 'warning' at all and Solomon must have wasted his time writing verse 31 in particular.

We are not only told to not drink such liquids (in addition to Prov 20:1) we are told to not even look at it so that it won't tempt us to drink it. Why else would the Holy Spirit give us this command? (and it is a command, not a suggestion!).SO.........if you reply and decide to ignore all else that I said, don't ignore this last paragraph.

Furthermore, here is proof that law enforcement regards DUI as intoxication (...again...from the Latin root 'toxin' = poison) ;



If you cannot see the wording then you will find it much enlarged here:

https://www.safe2drive.com/student/en/images/texasTrafficViolations_final_3.jpg

 

[Calypsis4]

You are aware, are you not, that wine ferments because of the presence of leaven in the juice. The only way to remove the leaven is to allow it to ferment.

So you are serving unleavened bread a leavened grape juice?

And? You are talking about yeast in the wine. But yeast is not rotten nor does it cause harm to the drinker. No one ever got drunk from drinking grape juice (which by the way, is much better tasting than any liquid that has undergone putrefaction (decay, degeneration, rotteness).

Jesus use of leaven is merely a symbol of evil. He had a reason for this even though He knew it was not poisonous by itself.

The bottom line is that we should not drink what is naturally poisonous to us or ANYTHING that degrades a clear thinking mind and perverts our judgment. Ex: "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink." Prov. 31:4. So would it be wrong for kings and princes to imbibe but quite all right for the average believer? No way. The exception to the rule was stated above as I quoted Paul's admonition to Timothy.

But if you can continue to justify the drinking of that which even man's law tells us is intoxicating(poisonous) please see the Texas state law chart above... then I will rest my case.

 

[matt wade]

The scripture do tell us that the drinking of wine for ones stomach problems is acceptable. I Timothy 5:23 but while medicinal use is permissible there isn't any other proper use for intoxicating beverages in the Bible.

You can't have it both ways, bud. Either it's poison, as you've stated numerous times, or it's not.

 

[Jerome]

Folks, don't fall for this "wine is unleavened!" nonsense. Even when filtered, fermented wine contains tiny fragments of the dead yeast.

 

[Calypsis4]

You can't have it both ways, bud. Either it's poison, as you've stated numerous times, or it's not.

You continue to confuse the issue. God gave the command not to imbibe in fermented beverages...but made an exception as it relates to medicinal use. And...we know the reason for the medical as opposed to the recreational use of the two different states of wine and/or liquors of various kinds.

You falsely charged me with confusing the drinking of wine as 'intoxicating' and therefore poisonous (i.e. fermented wine, which you say it is not) yet I proved that you were wrong with but one single statement from the Texas State Police. I can give you many more examples. Are you still going to insist on that point after seeing this? If so, I rest my case with you and we are done here.

P.S. How much is too much? At what point is God displeased with drinking wine and beyond moderation? One drink? Two? Three? Four? Five? etc. ..............please specify and then give scripture to prove your point.

 

[matt wade]

You continue to confuse the issue. God gave the command not to imbibe in fermented beverages...but made an exception as it relates to medicinal use. And...we know the reason for the medical as opposed to the recreational use of the two different states of wine and/or liquors of various kinds.

You haven't shown a single command of God stating such.

You falsely charged me with confusing the drinking of wine as 'intoxicating' and therefore poisonous (i.e. fermented wine, which you say it is not) yet I proved that you were wrong with but one single statement from the Texas State Police. I can give you many more examples. Are you still going to insist on that point after seeing this? If so, I rest my case with you and we are done here.

I don't even know what you are talking about here. What did I falsely charge you with?

P.S. How much is too much? At what point is God displeased with drinking wine and beyond moderation? One drink? Two? Three? Four? Five? etc. ..............please specify and then give scripture to prove your point.

God is displeased when wine becomes an addiction and therefore an idol in our lives.

 

[TCassidy]

You need to settle down, fella.

And you need to stop being a patronizing, petulant child.

 

[TCassidy]

The scripture do tell us that the drinking of wine for ones stomach problems is acceptable.

You seem to have missed the point. You stated "poisoning begins with the first drink." Either what you said was untrue or Paul told Timothy to commit suicide. I suspect the former is more likely correct.

 

[matt wade]

And you need to stop being a patronizing, petulant child.

You think this is bad? Just wait till he starts telling you about how the demons have possessed just about every person he's ever come in contact with and the insane level of physical manifestations of these demons. One would believe that his life was the inspiration for the movie Poltergeist.

 

[Calypsis4]

And you need to stop being a patronizing, petulant child.

Oh, then please forgive this nearly 65 yr old 'petulant child'.

You clearly don't like it when someone crosses you with facts from both scripture and legal sources that prove your point is in error.

Well, O.K. have a nice day, brother. Like I said, I rest my case.

 

[matt wade]

Oh, then please forgive this nearly 65 yr old 'petulant child'.

You clearly don't like it when someone crosses you with facts from both scripture and legal sources that prove your point is in error.

Well, O.K. have a nice day, brother. Like I said, I rest my case.

LOL, you can rest your case all you want, but you've not provided a single fact that will help you obtain a verdict in your favor.

 

[Calypsis4]

You seem to have missed the point. You stated "poisoning begins with the first drink." Either what you said was untrue or Paul told Timothy to commit suicide. I suspect the former is more likely correct.

Just to answer this one last statement of yours: One can't get drunk without taking the first drink. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. What Paul told Timothy was for medicinal purposes and you are suggesting something to the meaning that he certainly did not think would happen to his son in the faith.

Bye.

 

[Calypsis4]

LOL, you can rest your case all you want, but you've not provided a single fact that will help you obtain a verdict in your favor.

I would win with Texas courts...and every other state that has similar laws.

I asked you direct questions in my last post to you. Why did you not answer them?

Nonetheless, bye (on this subject).

 

[TCassidy]

Oh, then please forgive this nearly 65 yr old 'petulant child'.

And I am considerably older than you, and unlike you, I act my age.

You clearly don't like it when someone crosses you with facts from both scripture and legal sources that prove your point is in error.

Please do not lie about what I said. My statement to you was in response to

You need to settle down, fella.

and nothing else. Shame on you! The Lord rebuke you!

Well, O.K. have a nice day, brother. Like I said, I rest my case.

You haven't made a case. You have posted a lot of unsupported opinions with no factual basis.

 

[TCassidy]

One can't get drunk without taking the first drink.

And one drink does not make one drunk. Just ask Paul. He didn't tell Timothy to get drunk, he said to take a little wine for his stomach's sake.

 

[Calypsis4]

You think this is bad? Just wait till he starts telling you about how the demons have possessed just about every person he's ever come in contact with and the insane level of physical manifestations of these demons. One would believe that his life was the inspiration for the movie Poltergeist.

Is lying the usual part of your repertoire? If not, then prove your statement by quoting me that "Just wait till he starts telling you about how the demons have possessed just about every person he's ever come in contact with..."

I will try to remain polite with you: Either quote me directly or apologize. (Hint: that has never been my position).

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16.

 

[Calypsis4]

To the other readers: what does spiritual warfare and demonic possession have to do with this subject to begin with,? Talk about 'off topic'!

Oh, but I forgot........(!).....those who drink wine/liquor are drinking of the 'spirits'. Example:



(for a better veiw: http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-g...on-sign-of-spirits-and-wine-prague-prague.jpg)

Perhaps I inadvertently stirred up the 'spirits'. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

 

[matt wade]

Is lying the usual part of your repertoire? If not, then prove your statement by quoting me that "Just wait till he starts telling you about how the demons have possessed just about every person he's ever come in contact with..."

I will try to remain polite with you: Either quote me directly or apologize. (Hint: that has never been my position).

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16.

Anyone doing a search for posts by your handle here, or the same handle across the internet, can find multiple posts with your outlandish stories about demon possession. Obviously I utilized some hyperbole and exaggerated by saying "just about every person he's ever come in contact with" in order to make my point.

 

[matt wade]

To the other readers: what does spiritual warfare and demonic possession have to do with this subject to begin with,? Talk about 'off topic'!

It has to do with the legitimacy of anything you post. I see a post from you and it is instantly discredited, because your previous posts have proven you are off your rocker.