Should a pastor be permitted to have a beer once in while?

[matt wade]

Oh, and by the way, just set things straight....I personally don't drink. I have struggled with addiction in the past and so it isn't wise for me to drink. I just don't feel the need to project my personal issues on others.

 

[InTheLight]

I would challenge the readers who drink: the next time you wish to drink your wine....be sure and not LOOK at it before you drink it. Perhaps that will help your conscience feel better.

If you are going to take the word "look" in that verse literally then it must mean blind people can drink wine.

<sorry, trying to lighten the mood in this thread... Psalm 104:15?>



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[TCassidy]

Mr. Cassidy, I am still waiting for you to quote me on that false charge you made. If you can quote me proving that I said virtually everyone I've known is demonized then you win and I will have to apologize.

Please post where I ever said any such thing. If you can't just apologize.

 

[TCassidy]

I personally don't drink.

Neither do I. But I am not legalist enough to condemn those who do so in moderation.

 

[TCassidy]

Calypsis4, I can't help but notice you still have not answered my question. In case you forgot here it is again.

You stated "poisoning begins with the first drink." Either what you said was untrue or Paul told Timothy to commit suicide. I suspect the former is more likely correct. Which is it?

 

[McCree79]

'Wine s a mocker, strong drink is raging and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise' Proverbs 20:1.

How is one deceived by liquor or intoxicating beverages? Hint: The "I can hold my liquor" attitude. The thought that a little won't hurt,...never mind that it qualifies as poison. You see, the word intoxicating comes from the word 'toxin' which = poison. One drink begins the poisoning and it starts to slow the mind down by degree.

If you knew that that luscious apple pie that someone offers you had only 1% arsenic in it would you eat the pie?

Anything intoxicating should be off limits for a Christian and the 'I only drink in moderation' attitude should be eliminated. Can one commit fornication in 'moderation'? Can one commit adlutery in 'moderation'? Can one lie in 'moderation'? Of course not. So the command to do things in 'moderation' has a different application as it concerns drinking intoxicating beverages.

That's funny.....because there actually is arsenic in Apple pie.....and we still eat it.

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[Zaac]

Neither do I. But I am not legalist enough to condemn those who do so in moderation.

Me neither. Never had a drop. Have just seen first hand the destruction it can do to people, their families and a Christian witness. It just isn't worth it.

 

[Zaac]

That's funny.....because there actually is arsenic in Apple pie.....and we still eat it.

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I believe you may be thinking of cyanide. And it actually can't get into a pie unless you use the seeds. The compound that breaks down into hydrogen cyanide is in the seeds of apples. But you'd have to eat a lotttttttttttt of apple seeds for it to be harmful.

 

[McCree79]

I believe you may be thinking of cyanide. And it actually can't get into a pie unless you use the seeds. The compound that breaks down into hydrogen cyanide is in the seeds of apples. But you'd have to eat a lotttttttttttt of apple seeds for it to be harmful.

Nope arsenic. Apples have a natural occurring level of arsenic. FDA puts a lot of effort monitoring the level. Especially in Apple juice. If you remember, children's juice was recalled a few years ago because of arsenic levels were too high.

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[Zaac]

Nope arsenic. Apples have a natural occurring level of arsenic. FDA puts a lot of effort monitoring the level. Especially in Apple juice. If you remember, children's juice was recalled a few years ago because of arsenic levels were too high.

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Sure do. My bad. The minute I read children's juice, I remembered the recalls.

 

[righteousdude2]

And you need to stop being a patronizing, petulant child.

Wow! Another put down of a person created in the image of the same God that made you? You are the reason many leave the church.

 

[righteousdude2]

And one drink does not make one drunk. Just ask Paul. He didn't tell Timothy to get drunk, he said to take a little wine for his stomach's sake.

You either believe the bible or you don't. You don't seem to.

Oh man of God .... the man who claims he knows and properly applies scripture. Moi thinks you forgot that in those days, there were few medications, and Paul's word to Timothy was for medical reasons, and not for social reasons. Your argument is not scriptural, although I am sure you will disagree ( could it be that you support drinking because you drink?) and take me to task on this. So, before you rip me, let me say that I am humbly looking forward to being schooled by a person of your caliber. Shalom!

 

[righteousdude2]

And I am considerably older than you, and unlike you, I act my age.
Please do not lie about what I said. My statement to you was in response to and nothing else. Shame on you! The Lord rebuke you!
You haven't made a case. You have posted a lot of unsupported opinions with no factual basis.

Oh, here we go again .... you love to call others Liars! Is that how you talk to those in the fellowship who have been CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD like you were created?

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh, then please forgive this nearly 65 yr old 'petulant child'.

You clearly don't like it when someone crosses you with facts from both scripture and legal sources that prove your point is in error.

Well, O.K. have a nice day, brother. Like I said, I rest my case.

You have Ted, forgive me, I mean Tom, pegged right. Be careful of this one, he wields great power.

 

[righteousdude2]

It is evident that the majority of Baptists, like Catholics, see no problem in entertaining the spirits. Of course I meant the spirits of alcohol! May I submit that this, like all the others issues we discuss here in, are up to individual beliefs and not necessarily proper interpretation of scripture. I continue to say that all we do will be judged not by man but rather by God at the BEMA seat judgement.

The ridiculous debating and name calling over this topic is meaningless when it comes down to the real judgement of saints. I say live and let live, so long as we love Jesus, have been born again, and prayerfully follow Him according to how each of us see Him leading and speaking to us. Shalom.

BTW - I don't drink. God dealt with me on the issue years ago, and He placed a thorn in my side to make sure I continue to obey His will for my life.

See you all in heaven .....

Some scripture to chew on: http://www.openbible.info/topics/being_drunk

 

[Rolfe]

And that is another seven page thread about alcohol quota met. *laugh*

Next month's topic: If the Three Wise Men Drank Wine, Would they Still Be Wise?

 

[annsni]

No, he did not and that is a purely prejudiced answer. Question: Do you or do you not partake of intoxicating beverages (as defined by law)? If the answer is 'yes' then we see the reason for such prejudiced thinking. If not then one must wonder why you would take such a position that is at deference with the text of scripture which warns us to not even LOOK at fermented wine.

I do not drink nor do I think that there is anything wrong with it. Our leaders in our church have asked the staff to not drink due to the fact that we have many in the church who have struggled with alcohol abuse and so we are doing it out of respect for them. I still cook with it (which is fine) and have no problem if our church reversed it's position to partake here and there like I used to (maybe a drink every week to every few weeks or even going months without it).

I do not look at one verse taken out of context to decide that drinking fermented wine is forbidden. God tells us clearly in His Word that He gives us wine to gladden the heart - yet we are to use it carefully. I compare Scripture's teaching on alcohol to it's teachings on sex. It is a good thing that God has given us to use properly and in order. The fact that Jesus would have partaken tells me a lot. He was accused of being a drunk and it's kind of hard to be accused of being a drunk when all you drink is grape juice (and remember that He was VERY closely watched by those accusing him so they would know - plus Jesus followed the Jewish law which included the use of wine in ceremonies, not to mention the cultural use of wine which even had children partaking). In reading through the scriptures for all the years I've been a believer, I cannot find one verse that says "No one should never ever drink alcohol because it's a sin." Instead I see guidelines, instruction and warning for it's use and misuse. That is what I base my belief on.

 

[Calypsis4]

Please post where I ever said any such thing. If you can't just apologize.

You said and I quote: "Just wait till he starts telling you about how the demons have possessed just about every person he's ever come in contact with and the insane level of physical manifestations of these demons."

I challenged you to quote me. You did not. You cannot because I never made that statement. Furthermore I never held to that position. So, my fellow poster you need to say you're sorry for bearing false witness against a fellow believer. But if you can't find the humility to apologize I will let you go your way and put you on ignore.

You made a direct attack upon me at least twice even though the board rules state clearly that you should not make personal attacks upon other members. You referred to me as a 'petulant child' in addition to the false charge you made as I quoted above. I have not called names nor made insulting remarks towards you nor anyone else on this thread; I merely stated my position in a matter-of-fact manner but you obviously can't handle it.

It's your choice, friend.

 

[Calypsis4]

If you are going to take the word "look" in that verse literally then it must mean blind people can drink wine.

Why would blind people be qualified to drink that which God has clearly warned against? More than that, of what value is the warning in Proverbs 23:31-32 if we do not take God seriously in that warning? Was it a warning or wasn't it? And if the liquid that is spoken of is not fermented (or in the process of becoming intoxicant) then why did the Holy Spirit issue the warning in the first place?

<sorry, trying to lighten the mood in this thread... Psalm 104:15?>

Oh? Talk to the ones who drink spirits...they are the ones casting insults and making false charges.

 

[Calypsis4]

You have Ted, forgive me, I mean Tom, pegged right. Be careful of this one, he wields great power.

'Powerful' in what way, brother?

But regardless as to who he is or what he is he may soon experience the power of the ignore tab.