Should a pastor be permitted to have a beer once in while?

[Calypsis4]

Yawn. Anyone else care to answer the questions that brave Matt Wade would not answer in post #86...that is besides his comrade in error, mr. uh, Cassidy?

Yours truly, mr. 'rocker'. Thumbsup

 

[matt wade]

Yawn. Anyone else care to answer the questions that brave Matt Wade would not answer in post #86...that is besides his comrade in error, mr. uh, Cassidy?

Yours truly, mr. 'rocker'. Thumbsup

I did answer in #87. Maybe a demon is obstructing your view?

 

[annsni]

Unfermented grape juice. That's why He referred to it as 'the fruit of the vine' at the Lord's supper. It had not had time to degenerate into a poisonous drink.

I'm sorry but since grape juice has yeast in it, it would not have been consumed at the last supper. [ok - I see this was already stated]

What legalistic approach? The Bible clearly tells us that fermented beverages should be avoided....

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder..

This takes the readers mind from the first drink to the last and the sorrowful results in drinking intoxicating beverages. It is clearly the fermented liquid that the Holy Spirit warns against and not the 'fruit of the vine' (unfermented).

Years ago, a good friend of mine argued with me on this. He staunchly argued the use of wine in moderation and thought I was too extreme. At dinner once he and his wife drank wine as was his family practice on occasion, but my wife and I politely abstained. Many years later he gave me a call and told me the sad story of his daughter who had just been arrested for DUI. She had been fighting with a drinking habit for years. I was nice to him and didn't remind him of his defense of 'drinking in moderation' years earlier but perhaps I should have. I could easily have said, "Who was it that introduced her to her first drink?"

Actually, most of the kids that I know who have become alcoholics come from homes that are staunch abstainers, taking much the same stance as you do.

 

[Calypsis4]

I did answer in #87. Maybe a demon is obstructing your view?

For everyone else: He did NOT answer my questions: Proof:

In reaction to what I said: "P.S. How much is too much? At what point is God displeased with drinking wine and beyond moderation? One drink? Two? Three? Four? Five? etc. ..............please specify and then give scripture to prove your point.

Matt Wade said:

God is displeased when wine becomes an addiction and therefore an idol in our lives.

WHERE did he specify the limit to what is drinking in moderation? I specifically asked him to specify what is no longer moderation. So where is that answer? The truth is that he did not specify nor pinpoint what is beyond moderation nor did he quote scripture BECAUSE HE CANNOT ...and he knows it. Nor did he answer my documentation concerning 'intoxication' as revealed by the Texas State Police and that it is indeed a word that comes from toxin --- which equals 'poison'...because he cannot.

This is why he will receive no more replies from me on this subject.

 

[Jerome]

I'm sorry but since grape juice has yeast in it, it would not have been consumed at the last supper.

How absurd. Fermented wine had yeast in it too.

 

[Calypsis4]

How absurd. Fermented wine had yeast in it too.

So what? It was not harmful in that state. Please read the pertinent posts above where this was discussed for you obviously missed it.

 

[annsni]

For everyone else: He did NOT answer my questions: Proof:

In reaction to what I said: "P.S. How much is too much? At what point is God displeased with drinking wine and beyond moderation? One drink? Two? Three? Four? Five? etc. ..............please specify and then give scripture to prove your point.

Matt Wade said:

God is displeased when wine becomes an addiction and therefore an idol in our lives.

WHERE did he specify the limit to what is drinking in moderation? I specifically asked him to specify what is no longer moderation. So where is that answer? The truth is that he did not specify nor pinpoint what is beyond moderation nor did he quote scripture BECAUSE HE CANNOT ...and he knows it. Nor did he answer my documentation concerning 'intoxication' as revealed by the Texas State Police and that it is indeed a word that comes from toxin --- which equals 'poison'...because he cannot.

This is why he will receive no more replies from me on this subject.

At what point is God displeased with eating? In my opinion, he answered just as Scripture has.

 

[Calypsis4]

At what point is God displeased with eating? In my opinion, he answered just as Scripture has.

When ones stomach is full. That is of course different with each person. I can't speak for everyone else but I know just what my limitation is on this matter.

But the Bible doesn't tell us to abstain from food; it does tell us to abstain from intoxicating liquids. Prov. 20:1 & 23:31-32.

 

[Calypsis4]

At what point is God displeased with eating? In my opinion, he answered just as Scripture has.

No, he did not and that is a purely prejudiced answer. Question: Do you or do you not partake of intoxicating beverages (as defined by law)? If the answer is 'yes' then we see the reason for such prejudiced thinking. If not then one must wonder why you would take such a position that is at deference with the text of scripture which warns us to not even LOOK at fermented wine.

 

[Rob_BW]

I believe the problem here lies in some of you thinking you're being condemned when people are merely saying "it's not a good look for a pastor" for many reasons. Nobody has condemned. There are just so many different reasons for why a pastor SHOULDN'T partake of alcohol.

I don't really understand why God's people fight so hard to defend the use of drinking poison that has caused so much harm?

Is it okay to smoke pot in moderation?

Hey if I can't compare marriage to wine, then you can't start talking about pot. Fair is fair.

As far as the word condemning, though, comparing something to pornography or adultery seems like a condemnation to me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[matt wade]

When ones stomach is full. That is of course different with each person. I can't speak for everyone else but I know just what my limitation is on this matter.

But the Bible doesn't tell us to abstain from food; it does tell us to abstain from intoxicating liquids. Prov. 20:1 & 23:31-32.

You can repeating it, but it won't change that the scripture you post doesn't support that.

 

[tyndale1946]

When ones stomach is full. That is of course different with each person. I can't speak for everyone else but I know just what my limitation is on this matter.

But the Bible doesn't tell us to abstain from food; it does tell us to abstain from intoxicating liquids. Prov. 20:1 & 23:31-32.

Why is it that some on here strain at a gnat and swallow a camel?... Then again this is called The Baptist Board... And frankly this Baptist is bored!... I will see all you brethren on another post... Brother Glen

 

[Calypsis4]

Hey if I can't compare marriage to wine, then you can't start talking about pot. Fair is fair.

As far as the word condemning, though, comparing something to pornography or adultery seems like a condemnation to me. Your mileage may vary.

Seems like Holy Spirit conviction to me...but you aren't liking it.

Which indicates the seriousness of your error. But we have not started calling names as those on your side of the matter. We have simply presented the scriptures and man's law concerning intoxication. That position is very strong. How? Well, why would the Holy Spirit lead Solomon to write "Look not upon the wine..." giving us warning to not dwell on even the sight of fermented wine IF IN FACT it's quite all right to drink it if we don't drink too much. How shallow it this? So we can drink it ....as long as we don't LOOK AT IT?

IF you can make common sense out of that kind of thinking then you will have a titanic problem explaining it to us.

 

[matt wade]

Seems like Holy Spirit conviction to me...but you aren't liking it.

Which indicates the seriousness of your error. But we have not started calling names as those on your side of the matter. We have simply presented the scriptures and man's law concerning intoxication. That position is very strong. How? Well, why would the Holy Spirit lead Solomon to write "Look not upon the wine..." giving us warning to not dwell on even the sight of fermented wine IF IN FACT it's quite all right to drink it if we don't drink to much. How shallow it this? So we can drink it ....as long as we don't LOOK AT IT?

IF you can make common sense out of that kind of thinking then you will have a titanic problem explaining it to us.

Answering for the third time...the verse in Proverbs says not to look at wine in the midst of fermenting, not the finished product.

Don't expect you to actually address this though.

 

[Calypsis4]

Why is it that some on here strain at a gnat and swallow a camel?... Then again this is called The Baptist Board... And frankly this Baptist is bored!... I will see all you brethren on another post... Brother Glen

Good question: so why are those who hold to your position doing that? We are plainly told to not even LOOK at wine in its fermented (intoxicating!) condition...and yet some of you think that its still quite all right to drink it---oh, but in moderation!

The spirits(devils) agree.


Concerning John the Baptist we are told: Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

But John's example isn't good enough for those of you who are compromising on this biblical principle. You make one excuse after another for a behavior that never was approved by God.

I would challenge the readers who drink: the next time you wish to drink your wine....be sure and not LOOK at it before you drink it. Perhaps that will help your conscience feel better.

 

[matt wade]

Good question: so why are those who hold to your position doing that? We are plainly told to not even LOOK at wine in its fermented (intoxicating!) condition...and yet some of you think that its still quite all right to drink it-

Still ignoring that the verse doesn't talk to fermented wine, but wine in the process of fermenting.

 

[Calypsis4]

Furthermore, why would God warn us to not LOOK at a fermenting beverage if that wine had NOT (from His view) reached the dangerous stage of intoxication? The point: no one has ever gotten drunk by drinking mere grape juice (the 'fruit of the vine') so why would He give a warning in the first place? It is therefore utterly dishonest to conclude that God tolerates imbibing a drink that is even partially fermented...for why would He give the warning if there is no danger in such a liquid condition to begin with?

To tell you the truth, friends, it is very troubling for me to see the incredibly shallow opinions on the part of my Baptist brethren on such matters.

 

[matt wade]

Furthermore, why would God warn us to not LOOK at a fermenting beverage if that wine had NOT (from His view) reached the dangerous stage of intoxication? The point: no one has ever gotten drunk by drinking mere grape juice (the 'fruit of the vine') so why would He give a warning in the first place? It is therefore utterly dishonest to conclude that God tolerates imbibing a drink that is even partially fermented...for why would He give the warning if there is no danger in such a liquid condition to begin with?

To tell you the truth, friends, it is very troubling for me to see the incredibly shallow opinions on the part of my Baptist brethren on such matters.

Glad you asked. Fermenting wine can produce gases that are harmful when breathed. God was protecting us by telling us not to look upon the wine until it was done fermenting.

 

[Calypsis4]

Well, I'm getting a bit tired. I'll head home now and get back here briefly tomorrow.

Mr. Cassidy, I am still waiting for you to quote me on that false charge you made. If you can quote me proving that I said virtually everyone I've known is demonized then you win and I will have to apologize.

 

[matt wade]

Well, I'm getting a bit tired. I'll head home now and get back here briefly tomorrow.

Mr. Cassidy, I am still waiting for you to quote me on that false charge you made. If you can quote me proving that I said virtually everyone I've known is demonized then you win and I will have to apologize.

You have a hard time following conversations, don't you? I made the charge and already explained it.