Should I tithe?

[Revmitchell]

You may be right. I am not sure, however, that “first fruits” and even the tithe of Abraham to Melchizedek qualifies as establishing the tithe (as a requirement of 10% belonging to God) before Leviticus.

What it does establish is that it is not just a product of the law. And given the history even if you hold to free will giving, giving below ten percent should be a problem in any Christians heart and mind.

 

[evangelist6589]

yes, as we are to bring it to the local church, and "offerings" to other ministries!

What if they are not Reformed and I do not like them as much nor do I get as much out of their sermons and teachings?

 

[Revmitchell]

What if they are not Reformed and I do not like them as much nor do I get as much out of their sermons and teachings?

The local church is where the tithe belongs.

 

[evangelist6589]

The local church is where the tithe belongs.

My question remains

 

[annsni]

What if they are not Reformed and I do not like them as much nor do I get as much out of their sermons and teachings?

Do you attend regularly? If you don't like them and don't get anything from them, leave and find another church. If you attend regularly, regardless of how you feel, they are your local church and you support them as a congregant.

 

[Revmitchell]

My question remains

I believe God has a church for you right where you are at. It may not be perfect but you need to be involved in a church where you attend regularly, tithe, and serve. There is not all the street preaching in all the world that can make up for that. God has not called you or anyone to act outside of the local church. It is the God ordained avenue by which we are edified, discipled, and encouraged. Failure to do this is to go against God and therefore sin.

Now there is a church right there where you are at that God as every intention for you to be at. You need to find it and all its imperfections and serve Him their faithfully. There are at least two members on this board who are reformed in theology and their church by and large is not. And yet they serve in that church faithfully and have for years.

And I would avoid the advice of those who cannot disagree without referring to views they disagree with as "lies".

No more excuses. Now go do the right thing.

 

[Inspector Javert]

My question remains

The Biblical answer...is that "tithing" is absolutely un-Scriptural...But, you should attend and put your all into a local congregation (warts and all)...and you should give, and give sacrificially. The ten% trash is an un-biblical lie.........and irrelevant. But, point is...you open up your wallet and cough up mad cash to the best you can, and it's between you and the Lord.

There is ZERO Biblical admonition to focus on a 10% mark...you give either more or less depending on what you can afford.

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

 

[Inspector Javert]

The local church is where the tithe belongs.

The Levitical cities are where "tithes" belong.....or Jerusalem if it's the Festival tithe...or, rather, again to the poor only if it's the poor tithe......totaling roughly 27% of over-all agricultural taxable produce from the Holy Land (provided you're a Jew).

The New Testament Church has nothing to do with "tithing"...they have to do with giving, and giving ALL they have to the service of Christ. There is no place for "tithing" in the New Testament.....

NONE.

From that webcite:

The purpose of this chapter is to demonstrate that Melchizedek does not * provide a legitimate pre-law foundation which can be used as an example of tithing for the New Covenant Christian. Although my conclusion is also held by many Christian denominations, it is noteworthy that this is also the original position of the Scofield Reference Bible, leading schools such as Dallas Theological Seminary, Moody Bible Institute, Wheaton College, and highly respected authors such as Craig Blomberg, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Walter Elwell, Theodore Epp, John MacArthur, Charles Ryrie, Charles Swindol, Merrill Unger and John Walvoord. These conservative evangelical scholars contend that the historical Melchizedek was never used to validate tithing in the Mosaic Law under the Old Covenant and cannot be used to validate tithing in the New Testament after Calvary. It will be shown that there is no eternal principle found in Genesis 14 which can be brought forward beyond Calvary to the church today. Ample evidence of this position exists in the writings of the previously mentioned authors which are used as textbook authorities in many colleges and seminaries today.

The S.B.C. is becoming Faithless...believing that it must forcibly insist on teaching an un-Scriptural heresy in order that it's work might continue. They have no faith in God's ability or intention to stir the hearts of God's people to sacrificially give and instead would rather settle on getting 10% un-Biblically in order to budget funds....it's sad.

Note how in 1925..The Baptist Faith and Message made no lying pretenses about Genesis 14:20 applying to the New Testament Church vis-à-vis it's proof-texts...but rather, as it became more desperate it included it compare statements:

The 1925:
Luke 12:42; 16:1-8; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 4:10; 2 Cor. 8:1-7; 2 Cor. 8:11-19; 2 Cor. 12:1-15; Matt. 25:14-30; Rom. 1:8-15; 1 Cor. 6:20; Acts 2:44-47.

The 1963:
Gen. 14:20; Lev. 27:30-32; Deut. 8:18; Mal. 3:8-12; Matt. 6:1-4,19-21; 19:21; 23:23; 25:14-29; Luke 12:16-21 Luke 12:42; 16:1-8; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 4:10; 2 Cor. 8:1-7; 2 Cor. 8:11-19; 2 Cor. 12:1-15; Matt. 25:14-30; Rom. 1:8-15; 1 Cor. 6:20; Acts 2:44-47.

The 2000:
Genesis 14:20; Leviticus 27:30-32; Deuteronomy 8:18; Malachi 3:8-12; Matthew 6:1-4,19-21; 19:21; 23:23; 25:14-29; Luke 12:16-21 Luke 12:42; 16:1-8; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 4:10; 2 Cor. 8:1-7; 2 Cor. 8:11-19; 2 Cor. 12:1-15; Matt. 25:14-30; Rom. 1:8-15; 1 Cor. 6:20; Acts 2:44-47.

The S.B.C. has elected( in less that 100 years) to boot-strap a back-log of about 4,000 years of Biblical Testimony onto the Back of a Theology which they are attempting to force-fit because they don't believe that God will provide for his Church and his Missions via the prescribed New Testament Biblical Method.

 

[JonC]

The Biblical answer...is that "tithing" is absolutely un-Scriptural...But, you should attend and put your all into a local congregation (warts and all)...and you should give, and give sacrificially. The ten% trash is an un-biblical lie.........and irrelevant. But, point is...you open up your wallet and cough up mad cash to the best you can, and it's between you and the Lord.

There is ZERO Biblical admonition to focus on a 10% mark...you give either more or less depending on what you can afford.

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

I understand the objection to the tithe for the Church (and although I am still uncertain, I do lean against it as a legalistic standard rather than sacrificial giving). While I think it may be misapplied when assigned to the Church, I certainly don't think that it an un-biblical lie. I don't think that it would be very difficult to find biblical support for tithing.

 

[JonC]

I believe God has a church for you right where you are at. It may not be perfect but you need to be involved in a church where you attend regularly, tithe, and serve. There is not all the street preaching in all the world that can make up for that. God has not called you or anyone to act outside of the local church. It is the God ordained avenue by which we are edified, discipled, and encouraged. Failure to do this is to go against God and therefore sin.

Now there is a church right there where you are at that God as every intention for you to be at. You need to find it and all its imperfections and serve Him their faithfully. There are at least two members on this board who are reformed in theology and their church by and large is not. And yet they serve in that church faithfully and have for years.

And I would avoid the advice of those who cannot disagree without referring to views they disagree with as "lies".

No more excuses. Now go do the right thing.

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Inspector Javert]

I understand the objection to the tithe for the Church (and although I am still uncertain, I do lean against it as a legalistic standard rather than sacrificial giving). While I think it may be misapplied when assigned to the Church, I certainly don't think that it an un-biblical lie. I don't think that it would be very difficult to find biblical support for tithing.

I understand where you're coming from.....but, it would be indeed be "difficult" to find Biblical support for it IMO.

I believed in "tithing" for years and thought it Biblical. But, if a SERIOUS and exhaustive study is made on the topic from the O.T., New Testament.......History etc....do I think a Biblically sound case can be made?? No, I don't. Only a mistaken one at best.

I think the doctrine persists largely due to ignorance. (Well meaning ignorance actually)......but ignorance none-the-less. Any exhaustive treatment of the topic will IMO render it CLEAR that it isn't "Biblical". But, I do understand the case that is made for it by honest and well-meaning people....It's just a wrong case though, and believed from ignorance.

Anything regularly propagated which is un-true makes blood boil....So, I may sometimes be more dogmatic and ferocious in attacking the doctrine than I should.......... I may have even crossed-over into PERSONALLY insulting, and if so, then I am wrong. I don't MEAN to be, but, when one HATES error, and LOVES truth (as I think we all do, including my friends who adhere to that error)...one can get feisty about some things easily. I may be getting too hot under the collar with my well-meaning friends who probably disagree. :flower:

But...the "tithe" doctrine is an error, and it must be exposed as such IMO.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Tithing as a "should" takes the joy out of it. Tithe because you have joy.

 

[Luke2427]

The "tithe"....as a teaching does not "pre-date" the giving of the Law.

It is no where mentioned before the flood. Provided we assume 6,000-10,000 years of human history beginning from Genesis 1, at least the first 1/3rd of human existence has ZERO account of a "tithe". Adam is not said to have "tithed" ditto Seth, ditto Noah....ditto Shem etc.

Abraham is never said to have "tithed" if that is defined as regularly giving 1/10th of his income...he "tithed" 10% of spoils to Melchizedek........SPOILS, not income. He paid of his men and NEVER kept the rest. That was a one time event off of spoils of war.

Isaac is never said to have tithed.

Jacob- (not "Israel") made a very conditional vow of trying to bargain for God's help. This was not an act of loving worship. Jacob has just fled from having deceived his brother and stolen his blessing. He is simply being the deal-maker and shrewd bargainer that he always had been.

There is no Scriptural evidence that Jacob actually kept this vow, but it is likely he did. Some Jewish tradition holds that he gave 10% of his wealth to the poor (where else would it go, the Temple?).
There is no mention of anyone else tithing before or after that for the next 400-ish years after the Israelites came into Egypt. Only Jacob's Conditional bargaining with God. Tithing is nowhere then mentioned until after they actually arrive in the Holy Land.
If you are going to teach your flocks to follow Abraham's and Jacob's example....than you are to teach them that promising a "tithe" is something you can use as a bargaining chip, that Abraham gave only once, (kept none of the rest) and only off of the spoils of war.

If tithing were a "moral principle" than why does fully one-third of human history pass with no mention of this eternal timeless principle?


New Testament early Christians did not "tithe".......they gave EVERYTHING they had to each other and the work of God and shared all in common. Decidedly, we are to give of our time, our talents and our money to the work of the Lord, but this has nothing to do with a percentage "tithe".


On a side note..."first-fruits" are not "tithes", and they never were. "First-fruits" went directly to the Temple, and could be carried in a single basket. They were for presently ministering Priests only and not the Levites. "First-fruits" and the "first-born" offerings were not part of the tithe or counted as tithe in any way. They are un-related. TITHES went to the Levitical cities.....not the Temple, and were for BOTH the Levites and the Priests...The Levites, not the people brought portions of the tithe from the Levitical cities to the Temple.

I could go on a long diatribe about why this is wrong, but instead I'll get right down to the brass tacks.

Most of this post is an argument from silence.

The Bibles does not say that so-and-so tithed so they must not have. That's an argument from silence. It's like saying, Inspector Javert never said on baptistboard that he lives in a house so he must be homeless.

The Bible DOES say that Abraham tithed to God's priest.

This is 400 years before the law.

'nuff said.

 

[Luke2427]

There is no NT tithe precept but there is one concerning giving:

2 Corinthians 9

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

The OT tithe was for citizen landowners and their agricultural gain.
It was to be brought to the Israeli capitol Jerusalem. It was an income tax.​

The OT tithe was to be paid in kind - 20 new sheep - 2 went to the Lord (and any firstborn males) brought to the temple or a levite in your neigborhood.​

There were conditions which excused you from the OT tithe but then you had to redeem the tithe and use the money for a celebration and you were required to invite priest(s).​

Laborers were not required to tithe.​

We (NT believers) in fact own nothing, everything we have is from our father in heaven and is His anyway.​

We are not under the law but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.​

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.​

While the NT does not command tithing neither does it forbid it (as long as the 2 Corinthians precepts aren't ignored).​

So look again at the passage in 2 Corinthians​

2 Corinthians 9

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

There are other precepts for giving:​

Faith - The just shall live by faith.​

God's glory - 1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.​

When you give an account of the deeds done in the body it will be to God and not anyone here at the BB.​

It is your decision.​

HankD​

The Galatians passage is talking about circumcision, feast days, and other such laws that are ceremonial in nature which only pointed to the coming Messiah.

The point Paul was making to the Gentiles is that you don't have to become a Jew to become a Christian.

To take that and turn it into antinomianism is not good.

Observing the moral law of God is one of the greatest sources of blessing and happiness available to human beings and society in every age.

It is still as much a sin as ever to commit idolatry, to bow to graven images, to dishonor your mother, to spurn God's Sabbath, to commit adultery, etc...

God has not changed his mind on these things. And God still blesses those who obey. He is still more interested in obedience than sacrfice.

Read the Psalms and note how many hundreds of times happiness and God's blessings are attributed to living God's ways which is observing and loving God's law.

To love God's law is to love God.

 

[Luke2427]

Thats what I plan to do. Grace To You deserves my support as do other ministries.

The Bible teaches you bring the tithe into the storehouse which is the place where you worship God and the place that ministers to you.

You don't get to give your money to whoever you want. If you want to move to California and go to John's church and tithe there- great!

Otherwise, you are supposed to tithe to the place that ministers to the community in which you live.

 

[HankD]

The Galatians passage is talking about circumcision, feast days, and other such laws that are ceremonial in nature which only pointed to the coming Messiah.

The point Paul was making to the Gentiles is that you don't have to become a Jew to become a Christian.

To take that and turn it into antinomianism is not good.

Observing the moral law of God is one of the greatest sources of blessing and happiness available to human beings and society in every age.

It is still as much a sin as ever to commit idolatry, to bow to graven images, to dishonor your mother, to spurn God's Sabbath, to commit adultery, etc...

God has not changed his mind on these things. And God still blesses those who obey. He is still more interested in obedience than sacrfice.

Read the Psalms and note how many hundreds of times happiness and God's blessings are attributed to living God's ways which is observing and loving God's law.

To love God's law is to love God.

I hear you brother.

I do love God's law because it showed me my need of Christ and brought me to Him.

But as to our walk we have no need of the law because we are led of the Spirit and the Spirit has never led anyone to sin.

The essence of the Book to the Galatians is - what motivates you in your walk with God?
The flesh or the Spirit.

His Spirit indwells us and we are new creatures, sheep don't want garbage anymore (from their former pig nature) they want still waters and green pastures.

Yes, we can fall into the mire but we hate the stench and go to the shepherd for cleansing.

I think you are confusing the tares with the wheat (whom they resemble).
Who "keep" the law by compulsion or when it's to their benefit.

The fruit produced is the difference. It speaks of a 24/7 way of life.

Those who walk after the flesh - well we know what crop comes from that and what it indicates...

But it is not so of those who walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.​

We keep His precepts because of our new nature, we are His children and have been born of the Spirit and we love Him who first loved us.

And brings us to a place the law never can.

2 Peter 1

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.​

HankD

 

[annsni]

I understand where you're coming from.....but, it would be indeed be "difficult" to find Biblical support for it IMO.

I believed in "tithing" for years and thought it Biblical. But, if a SERIOUS and exhaustive study is made on the topic from the O.T., New Testament.......History etc....do I think a Biblically sound case can be made?? No, I don't. Only a mistaken one at best.

I think the doctrine persists largely due to ignorance. (Well meaning ignorance actually)......but ignorance none-the-less. Any exhaustive treatment of the topic will IMO render it CLEAR that it isn't "Biblical". But, I do understand the case that is made for it by honest and well-meaning people....It's just a wrong case though, and believed from ignorance.

Anything regularly propagated which is un-true makes blood boil....So, I may sometimes be more dogmatic and ferocious in attacking the doctrine than I should.......... I may have even crossed-over into PERSONALLY insulting, and if so, then I am wrong. I don't MEAN to be, but, when one HATES error, and LOVES truth (as I think we all do, including my friends who adhere to that error)...one can get feisty about some things easily. I may be getting too hot under the collar with my well-meaning friends who probably disagree. :flower:

But...the "tithe" doctrine is an error, and it must be exposed as such IMO.

I disagree that it's fully an erroneous doctrine that must be exposed since Jesus even spoke of it as it being a good thing. I'd say that's pretty Biblical.

 

[Inspector Javert]

I disagree that it's fully an erroneous doctrine that must be exposed since Jesus even spoke of it as it being a good thing. I'd say that's pretty Biblical.

Yes...to Pharisees (who ARE subject to Jewish Law which Jesus supported)...Note also that they were tithing of their herbs, cummin other Agricultural products etc..

1.) I am not a Jew under the law (they SHOULD have tithed)
2.) You are not teaching people to tithe the parsley and cilantro out of their herb garden.....you are claiming they should give of currency. That is not a tithe.

 

[annsni]

Yes...to Pharisees (who ARE subject to Jewish Law which Jesus supported)...Note also that they were tithing of their herbs, cummin other Agricultural products etc..

1.) I am not a Jew under the law (they SHOULD have tithed)
2.) You are not teaching people to tithe the parsley and cilantro out of their herb garden.....you are claiming they should give of currency. That is a tithe.

So, their income was based on what?

 

[Inspector Javert]

The Bible teaches you bring the tithe into the storehouse

Completely erroneous.
1.) The Church is not a "storehouse"
2.) Even the Jews didn't bring their tithes to the "storehouse"......the Levites did

which is the place where you worship God and the place that ministers to you.

Not Scriptural...the "storehouses" were roughly 7' by 7' STOREROOMS which connected to the Temple complex. The LEVITES brought of their tithe for the time (two weeks if memory serves) to care for themselves and the Priests as they served in Jerusalem approximately twice a year.....At all other times, ALL tithes were brought to the Levitical cities, not the storehouse.

Otherwise, you are supposed to tithe to the place that ministers to the community in which you live.

I agree that we should give primarily and firstly to our local Church....but the church is not a "storehouse".....it's an assembly of believers, that's all.