Should I tithe?

[Inspector Javert]

I could go on a long diatribe about why this is wrong, but instead I'll get right down to the brass tacks.

Most of this post is an argument from silence.

The Bibles does not say that so-and-so tithed so they must not have. That's an argument from silence.

1.)An argument from silence is a tricky thing.....it is not always erroneous to use one.
If I said: Luke has not reported their being a 300 lb. gorilla in his house.....it's valid to infer that there is NOT ONE, because you have to weigh it against the likelihood that something so critical would actually be reported.

I maintain that if "tithing" were an eternal moral principle, than God might have mentioned it once in the first full third of human history, and that he might have bothered to command the gentile Churches to do so, but, he did not. You will further note that GOD gave neither Abraham nor Jacob any such command to tithe...they simply DID so. And alas, they did not do so in the same WAY either. If we are going to take DESCRIPTIVE statements about what people DID, and make them PRESCRIPTIVE to what we SHOULD DO...than you should teach the church to bring 100% of all of their income and share it equally with one another, like the little communists that the early Church was....But, you wouldn't teach them to "tithe" a mere 10%. That's one of the main reasons God dropped Ananias and Sapphira...they were effectively stealing from others in the congregation. It makes sense dudn'it!

2.) My argument did not consist ENTIRELY of the argument from silence. You are simply pointing that out to avoid responding to all the myriads of other arguments people have made.

It's like saying, Inspector Javert never said on baptistboard that he lives in a house so he must be homeless.

No, it's more like saying, if there is a 300lb. gorilla in Rick's house, he would probably have called Animal Control by now, and as he has neither shot at anything......his dogs aren't barking, and he has not in fact called Animal Control, I think it is safe to assume his property is presently free of violent gorillas at the moment.

The Bible DOES say that Abraham tithed to God's priest.

1.) Only off of spoils of war, and only once, and not from his normal income.
2.) He did not keep the rest, but gave it away
3.) He was not "commanded" to, he simply did so.
4.) You are not teaching people to give 10% of war spoils...you are teaching them to give consistently of their monetary income on a regular basis......Abraham did not do that.

This is 400 years before the law.

Yeah, I know......Isn't it interesting though that AFTER the law was given there were different and SEPARARATE laws for how to deal with spoils of war? I would imagine if tithing were inextricably interrelated to spoils of war......than the rules for how to handle them would be related to tithe laws......but alas, they are not.

'nuff said.

I don't think so.....

 

[Inspector Javert]

So, their income was based on what?

It depends on what you did for a living.........

If, for instance I were a tanner or a fisherman or a blacksmith, I was not to tithe because I HAVE no agricultural products to tithe with......INSTEAD, I paid a temple tax!! not a "tithe".

Moses instituted that in Exodus 30
Exd 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.
Exd 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Exd 30:15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, (that's not a percentage is it?) when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Exd 30:16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.


If you are lucky, Jesus will provide you with that cash from a fish's mouth in rough times.....as a carpenter...he had to pay one too, but he didn't "tithe". It was a Flat-Tax!!

 

[HankD]

Even under the law there was no compulsion to give gifts and free will offerings to the Lord.

On the other hand there was no limit either.

Leviticus 23:
37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.​

HankD​

 

[agedman]

I have been enjoying the discussion on this thread.

As one who is so near death I wake up in the morning wondering which side of the grass I will see when I open my eyes, I question the concept tithing as I have heard it preached over the decades.

Perhaps it is better that I place the question(s) in three scenarios:


Scenario:

Retired, living on the money set aside during the "working" years.

The interest doesn't keep up with the inflation rate, so that isn't an "increase."

The "tithe" has been paid before setting the money aside.

Does one pay a second "tithe?"


Scenario:

Social welfare payments are made to sustain life at poverty level.

There is no "increase" and no true "income" for it is welfare.

Does one pay a tithe on what is not theirs?


Scenario:

A person has faithfully given far above the "tenth" and considered it honoring God.

Now, in a church were "storehouse tithing" is preached and accountability of giving is tied with political voting of the assembly.

Does the person demand a refund for over paid tithing?

 

[annsni]

Scenario:

Retired, living on the money set aside during the "working" years.

The interest doesn't keep up with the inflation rate, so that isn't an "increase."

The "tithe" has been paid before setting the money aside.

Does one pay a second "tithe?"

If it is money you have already tithed on, then you would not pay a second tithe. It is money you have not increased but instead held on to all this time.

Scenario:

Social welfare payments are made to sustain life at poverty level.

There is no "increase" and no true "income" for it is welfare.

Does one pay a tithe on what is not theirs?

Welfare still is an increase and income. It is money you "earn" or are given. We give a portion of our gifts as well in our family.

Scenario:

A person has faithfully given far above the "tenth" and considered it honoring God.

Now, in a church were "storehouse tithing" is preached and accountability of giving is tied with political voting of the assembly.

Does the person demand a refund for over paid tithing?

You are not an indian giver with God. He has richly blessed you, you return a portion. Done.

 

[agedman]

If it is money you have already tithed on, then you would not pay a second tithe. It is money you have not increased but instead held on to all this time.

So, this person should be satisfied that they have given all that is necessary?

Welfare still is an increase and income. It is money you "earn" or are given. We give a portion of our gifts as well in our family.

Welfare is not an increase or income.

Does not the Scripture principle discuss the tithe is on the increase?

How is living off someone else an increase - do children tithe a dime from every dollar of allowance when the tithe has already been paid on that allowance by the parents?

You are not an indian giver with God. He has richly blessed you, you return a portion. Done.

Actually, "storehouse tithing" is to the local assembly and not specifically giving to God.

In the scenario, there was a contractual agreement that the tithe was part of the voting privilege in the assembly. Those who had no or inconsistent records of giving were not allowed to vote.

So, if in that situation, it follows that over payment should oblige some refund with no loss of privilege.

>>>>>>


For those who think the last scenario is unreal, back in the day, the church would hand out cards to the membership in which the members would "commit" a certain dollar amount for "the support of the ministry."

Often a church ruler would visit the home of those who "fell short" of the commitment and extend pressure that the amount be brought current - voting privileges was more often used to squeeze or press the issue.

 

[Salty]

How is living off someone else an increase - do children t a [give an offering] from every dollar of allowance when the [offering] has already been [cheerfully given] on that allowance by the parents?

YES - a BIG YES

What better way to teach a child to give cheerfully to the Lord

Salty

NOTE: brackets indiciate an edit by yours truly.

 

[annsni]

So, this person should be satisfied that they have given all that is necessary?

If they have the ability to further give, that is wonderful. If they cannot, they should not feel any guilt.

Welfare is not an increase or income.

Does not the Scripture principle discuss the tithe is on the increase?

How is living off someone else an increase - do children tithe a dime from every dollar of allowance when the tithe has already been paid on that allowance by the parents?

If I gave you $10 because you had no money, would that be an increase? Yes. If the government gives you welfare money, is that an increase? Yes. And as for the kids tithing from their allowance, absolutely. My kids were taught 10% to God, 10% to long term savings, 10% to regular savings and then the 70% that is left is up to them (with us encouraging them to increase their regular savings amount if able to). The company you work for pays taxes on their profits and then you pay taxes on them again, correct? So why not gladly give to God when you find yourself with more money than you had before?

Actually, "storehouse tithing" is to the local assembly and not specifically giving to God.

So just how do you give to God then? Is not giving to your local assembly giving to the Lord?

In the scenario, there was a contractual agreement that the tithe was part of the voting privilege in the assembly. Those who had no or inconsistent records of giving were not allowed to vote.

So, if in that situation, it follows that over payment should oblige some refund with no loss of privilege.

That is ridiculous and if that is a real church situation, I'd leave. NO one is to know what my giving is except the person putting the money up. In our church, my husband has no clue what people give. If they are a member, they vote. If they are not, they don't vote. It is not based on their giving as if they could buy their vote.

For those who think the last scenario is unreal, back in the day, the church would hand out cards to the membership in which the members would "commit" a certain dollar amount for "the support of the ministry."

Often a church ruler would visit the home of those who "fell short" of the commitment and extend pressure that the amount be brought current - voting privileges was more often used to squeeze or press the issue.

That would be a church to leave. No "church ruler" should know what the giving is, period.

 

[Yeshua1]

Even under the law there was no compulsion to give gifts and free will offerings to the Lord.

On the other hand there was no limit either.

Leviticus 23:
37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.​

HankD​

We need to get to the mind set, which I have not yetaccomplished, to where we give abck and offer to God all things, and let Him decide how much we get to "keep!"

 

[OldRegular]

Indeed the tithe is mentioned on two occasions prior to the giving of the Law. Other than the tithe of the spoils that Abraham gave Melchisedec there is no record of anyone receiving the tithe.

A question for those who argue that the tithe preceded the Law. Who received the pre Law tithe?

 

[Havensdad]

If you REALLY want to know...I just preached on this subject last week.

SPOILER: I am very tired of preachers preaching "Tithing" in the church....or even worse, "Your financially unstable, because you don't tithe". What a load of legalistic....hogwash.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1029131443345

 

[Ed B]

...

Actually, "storehouse tithing" is to the local assembly and not specifically giving to God.

....
.

Actually, storehouse tithing as describe in scripture was to bring your tithe to the “storehouse”. Our term would be warehouse and perhaps food bank. It was set aside for widows, orphans, strangers and Levites. I know it is common to equate storehouse with Church or local assembly in our times when and only when we discuss tithing but that is not what the Bible taught. We have redirected "Storehouse Tithing' to "Synagogue Tithing". Our local assemblies are modeled after the synagogue system. The problem is scripture gives no example of bringing tithes to a synagogue.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Actually, storehouse tithing as describe in scripture was to bring your tithe to the “storehouse”. Our term would be warehouse and perhaps food bank. It was set aside for widows, orphans, strangers and Levites. I know it is common to equate storehouse with Church or local assembly in our times when and only when we discuss tithing but that is not what the Bible taught. We have redirected "Storehouse Tithing' to "Synagogue Tithing". Our local assemblies are modeled after the synagogue system. The problem is scripture gives no example of bringing tithes to a synagogue.

I would refer you to my post on the other, similarly developed thread:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=89695&posted=1#post2045652

Your problem in comparing the church to the synagogue is that the synagogue system was designed to support the Levites as they served God on behalf of all Israel. The church is designed to serve the believer, without thought of how much benefit that gives the pastoral and administrative staff.

 

[agedman]

Perhaps, I should have made it clear that I DO NOT hold that tithing - storehouse or otherwise - is appropriate.

The believer is to withhold nothing from God.

As the believer is to give the heart, mind, soul, strength (body), it naturally follows that the believer will consider all they have as a loan from God to be used as He desires.

As a result, even the purchase of the pleasures of this world should be held as an offering to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Did not the widow give more than any at the temple?

It isn't a percentage given that matters, it is what the believer considers theirs to keep and what is rightfully God's.

To the true believer - All is rightfully God's and he gives to us as He desires.

And, are we not more beautifully adorned and adored than the lilies of the field?

 

[HankD]

When our kids were at home we used to give them an allowance.

One of my girls saved up all her allowance for quite a while and bought a fishing rod and reel for me for my birthday gift.

I learned from that.

HankD

 

[annsni]

When our kids were at home we used to give them an allowance.

One of my girls saved up all her allowance for quite a while and bought a fishing rod and reel for me for my birthday gift.

I learned from that.

HankD

What a great testimony on this subject!

 

[Salty]

When our kids were at home we used to give them an allowance.

One of my girls saved up all her allowance for quite a while and bought a fishing rod and reel for me for my birthday gift.
HankD

reminds me of this Leave it to Beaver Episode

 

[HankD]

reminds me of this Leave it to Beaver Episode

She might have gotten the idea from the reruns

HankD

 

[Luke2427]

]

I hear you brother.

I do love God's law because it showed me my need of Christ and brought me to Him.

But as to our walk we have no need of the law because we are led of the Spirit and the Spirit has never led anyone to sin.

Being led by the Spirit means what to you? Does it mean you just FEEL your way through life and call your feelings the Spirit of God?

That's what I think it means to most people.

They conflate "feelings" with "leading of the Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit gave us the Bible. To exclude and ignore HALF of it is NOT to be led by the Spirit.

The law is not a burden to the child of God. It is a blessing. The real child of God raises his voice with David and cries from his SPIRIT- OH!! HOW I LOVE THY LAW!!

No where does Jesus say he eradicated the moral law of God. He fulfilled the ceremonial law for us. That's it.

What you are advocating is antinomianism.

It is not good.

The essence of the Book to the Galatians is - what motivates you in your walk with God?
The flesh or the Spirit.

Holy days and ceremonial law which Christ fulfilled is ALL that Paul is saying the Gentiles should not pursue.

Paul was not saying, "Oh all that "thou shalt not commit adultery stuff- don't worry about that!"

Paul was not advocating that people "feel" their way through life.

His Spirit indwells us and we are new creatures, sheep don't want garbage anymore (from their former pig nature) they want still waters and green pastures.

WRONG!

Paul had to die daily because there still WAS part of him that LONGED for sin.

There is a part of you that has the same longing. And EVERYONE else on earth too.

 

[Luke2427]

Completely erroneous.
1.) The Church is not a "storehouse"
2.) Even the Jews didn't bring their tithes to the "storehouse"......the Levites did

Not Scriptural...the "storehouses" were roughly 7' by 7' STOREROOMS which connected to the Temple complex. The LEVITES brought of their tithe for the time (two weeks if memory serves) to care for themselves and the Priests as they served in Jerusalem approximately twice a year.....At all other times, ALL tithes were brought to the Levitical cities, not the storehouse.

I agree that we should give primarily and firstly to our local Church....but the church is not a "storehouse".....it's an assembly of believers, that's all.

All claims without warrants.

You just SAY these things are so.

They are not.