Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !

[Don]

Did this guy really just indicate we should ignore context?....

 

[PreachTony]

Did this guy really just indicate we should ignore context?....

That seems to have almost been his MO from the start...

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe it is a misguided female type

 

[The Archangel]

You are just evasive ! It's up to you to prove any of my points wrong by citng the context . Now let's see you do it using context ! Usually when men can't defeat a scriptural argument they evasively bring up the context ! That means that they are defeated !

Really?! It is usually customary to actually make a case proving your point, rather than just saying that scripture makes your point. You should try making a case stating why scripture makes your point.

It is a very small-minded statement to say one is defeated because they cite your understanding of context, or lack-thereof. In reality, the onus is on you to say why scripture says and means what you're reporting it says and means. Simply saying "it says ______" isn't a sufficient statement. The text has meaning and the meaning must be brought to bear on our understanding of the text. Therefore, it is of the utmost importance what the author of any given text means to convey. If you cite that author without properly citing the meaning of the words, all you've done is proof-texted something to fit your own philosophy.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

angel

Really

Yes really ! You have evaded all of my comments in my posts to start rabbit trails ! Find me in scripture where Paul or Jesus or any other Apostle when they quoted a scripture that they gave the whole context from which they quoted the scripture from ! Show a scripture that states that such a thing must be done ! Thats you saying that unless you can show me an example of it in the scripture or such a command to do so !

 

[The Archangel]

angel



Yes really ! You have evaded all of my comments in my posts to start rabbit trails ! Find me in scripture where Paul or Jesus or any other Apostle when they quoted a scripture that they gave the whole context from which they quoted the scripture from ! Show a scripture that states that such a thing must be done ! Thats you saying that unless you can show me an example of it in the scripture or such a command to do so !

You are neither Paul nor Christ.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

You are neither Paul nor Christ.

The Archangel

Neither are you !

 

[Don]

angel



Yes really ! You have evaded all of my comments in my posts to start rabbit trails ! Find me in scripture where Paul or Jesus or any other Apostle when they quoted a scripture that they gave the whole context from which they quoted the scripture from ! Show a scripture that states that such a thing must be done ! Thats you saying that unless you can show me an example of it in the scripture or such a command to do so !

If this is truly what you believe, then you must believe that 1 Peter 3:20 says we must be baptized to be saved.

If you disagree, then you understand that other parts of scripture say otherwise. You understand that when you couple 1 Peter 3:20 with verse 21, it modifies verse 20 so that you gain context that says baptism is a "like figure," not a requirement for salvation.

And thus, you should see the dilemma you've created by not looking at ALL of scripture for your view of one verse--and thus, "context."

If you agree that 1 Peter 3:20 requires baptism to be saved, well, we have nothing further to talk about.

 

[The Archangel]

Neither are you !

Ah, yes... You are so right about that--

Which is why I don't ever want to say "[Archangel] says..." I always want to say, "Thus says the Lord." The only way to do that is to use His words according to context and according to the author's (Author's?) intent.

Any believer only has "authority to speak from God only so long as they speak His message and unfold His words."[1] Any Christian seeking to speak what God has said can only do so if the preaching, writing, teaching makes the point of a particular passage of Scripture the point of what the Christian is speaking.[2]

If you're taking things out of context and gerrymandering passages of Scripture into your own philosophy, you are essentially putting words into God's mouth--which is a very dangerous thing to do (see: The penalty for false prophets in the Old Testament).

Unfortunately, you have been demonstrating that you have an over-arching philosophy into which you try to squish Scripture. I've seen many do this with Calvinism and Covenant Theology in particular. When your philosophy becomes detached from a true biblical theology, all you're left with is a christianized, secularistic philosophy, nothing else.

For example... The hyper-Calvinists deny that evangelism has to be done. In other words, it is thought that if someone is elect, there is no need for them to respond to God in repentance and faith. That's a philosophy that is devoid of any true biblical theology. While a purely philosophical understanding of Calvinism can and often does lead to the rejection of missions work, a Calvinism that is derived from a robust biblical theology cannot support the purely philosophical conclusion that the elect will be saved without hearing the gospel and responding to the gospel in repentance and faith. Romans 10 simply will never allow for any understanding in which missions and responding to the gospel in repentance and faith is unnecessary.

So, yes, context matters--greatly. And, I might add, this is why a proper understanding of hermenutics is so important. If we were to mimic the way you're trying to handle some passages that you've posted here, when reading Revelation describing Him as a "Lamb", we would could make no other conclusion that Jesus has fleece and talks with a "b-a-a-a-a" accent.

Verbs matter. Participles matter. The author's use of a particular word matters. What type of genre the book is matters. You would do well to learn these things.

The Archangel

__________

[1] Mark Dever, 9 Marks of a Healthy Church (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2004, 41.

[2] See: Ibid., 40.

 

[savedbymercy]

the arch

Ah, yes... You are so right about that--

I know I am, along with being right about this World being Created specifically for a Redemptive Purpose, an Eternal Purpose grounded in Christ, that necessitated sin and death coming into the world by Adam's disobedience !

Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


As far as your comment about one cannot make a point with the scripture without introducing the entire context from which the scriptures are taken is a bunch of rubbish.

Oh yeah, context is important, however its not always mandatory to explain it whenever one makes a point with a scripture extracted from any given context. The whole Bible is centered around the Person and Work of Jesus Christ no matter what context !

In fact, I bet i can go find many of your scripture quotes in threads you have participated in here, and I ensure you , you did not give an explanation of the context from which you extracted the scripture from to make your point, which would immediately make you a hypocrite ! Now do you want to make that challenge ? Yes or No !

 

[savedbymercy]

No. "Misinterpreting" and "Misrepresenting" the text are two, separate things.

Misinterpreting is due to being mistaken; misrepresenting is due to being intentional...

Furthermore, all of us have but one goal when it comes to the text of Scripture: To uncover the meaning. Peter is quite clear (2 Peter 1:20) that there is one meaning. Surely, there may be many applications of the text, but there is only one, correct interpretation.

The Archangel

Could you please explain the context of 2 Pet 1:20 ?

 

[Yeshua1]

If you don't know I can't tell you!



No not correct!

God does not use third parties to bring His will to pass then?

God did not use satan, nor evil nations/people to make sure that through their wicked deeds he still had His plans work out, as i ncase of Joseph?

 

[Yeshua1]

What you're expressing here, in theological lingo, is that "God decreed the fall." This is the so-called Supralapsarian position.

Though it is mostly issues of inference and guessing on the order of decrees..., the Supra position means that God, for lack of a better term, makes Adam sin.

The Infralapsarian position, on the other hand, has God "allowing the fall." The Infra position, I think, better supports the what Scripture reveals--Man is free (not in a libertarian way, though) and responsible for his actions and God is sovereign. The Supra takes away the freedom and responsibility of man and, makes God the author of sin--if He, in fact, "decrees" the fall.

If, on the other hand, God allows the fall, then God is sovereign in a way that we see in the Bible (Genesis 50, for example) and man is responsible as we also see in Scripture. The Infra position has God "for-ordaining the free and sometimes sinful actions of man to serve His purpose and display His glory."

The Archangel

seems many reformed baptist hold to that view of his though!

 

[The Archangel]

Could you please explain the context of 2 Pet 1:20 ?

[16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” [18] we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, [20] knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. [21] For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:16-21 ESV)​

Peter is encouraging his hearers, especially as it relates to the truthfulness of the claims of and about Christ. Here are some highlights:

1. These things are not myths; Peter (and others) were eyewitnesses.
2. Jesus was "confirmed" by God the Father Himself; Peter (and others) heard His very words.
3. The Prophetic word (referring back to the Prophets who foretold the coming of Christ; see 1 Peter 1) is more fully confirmed (as if it even needed to be confirmed in the first place).
4. The prophecy found in scripture is not the product of man nor his imagination. True prophets spoke the very words of God carried along by the Holy Spirit.

So, what Peter is saying here is that there is, essentially, one interpretation of scripture and it's what God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, conveyed through men. Moreover, what was prophesied will come to pass--since it has been spoken by God.

The Archangel

 

[The Archangel]

I know I am, along with being right about this World being Created specifically for a Redemptive Purpose, an Eternal Purpose grounded in Christ, that necessitated sin and death coming into the world by Adam's disobedience !

Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

As far as your comment about one cannot make a point with the scripture without introducing the entire context from which the scriptures are taken is a bunch of rubbish.

So.... I take it you think yourself on the same level with Jesus or Paul, then????

First, the Ephesians passage mentions nothing about what you say it does. It is simply a non-sequitur to come to the conclusion you've come to from that passage.

And, I didn't say anyone had to cite the entire context. I said YOU, specifically, needed to cite the context since you are so happily breaking the context to pieces.

Oh yeah, context is important, however its not always mandatory to explain it whenever one makes a point with a scripture extracted from any given context. The whole Bible is centered around the Person and Work of Jesus Christ no matter what context !

In fact, I bet i can go find many of your scripture quotes in threads you have participated in here, and I ensure you , you did not give an explanation of the context from which you extracted the scripture from to make your point, which would immediately make you a hypocrite ! Now do you want to make that challenge ? Yes or No !

Perhaps you should try explaining this passage:

[12] Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. [13] Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. [14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. (James 1:12-15 ESV)​

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

So.... I take it you think yourself on the same level with Jesus or Paul, then????

First, the Ephesians passage mentions nothing about what you say it does. It is simply a non-sequitur to come to the conclusion you've come to from that passage.

And, I didn't say anyone had to cite the entire context. I said YOU, specifically, needed to cite the context since you are so happily breaking the context to pieces.




Perhaps you should try explaining this passage:

[12] Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. [13] Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. [14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. (James 1:12-15 ESV)​

The Archangel

I don't need to explain it, you bought it up so you explain it and preferably on another thread ! What I bring, to the best of my God given ability I explain !

 

[kyredneck]

"..he himself tempts no one..."

Lol, but Satan and the spirits sure get played like a banjo string...

 

[savedbymercy]

Adam was Created in and According to God's Eternal Purpose !

Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam was Created for the Mystery that was in Christ, which was hid in God, who all things were Created because of !

Those words in Vs 9 "who created all things by Jesus Christ"

That word by preposition dia :


I.through

A.of place

i.with


ii.in



B.of time

i.throughout


ii.during



C.of means

i.by


ii.by the means of




II.through

A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

i.by reason of


ii.on account of


iii.because of for this reason


iv.therefore


v.on this account

It serves a multitude of meanings here, The World was Created In Christ, meaning Adam and the World in his Loins, the World was Created on account of Christ, and by means of Christ as Mediator !

The same thing is indicated in Col 1:16

16 For by[in] him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him[Christ], and for him[Christ]:

This means that Adam was Created in Christ !

Now by Adam being Created in Christ, it was also for an Redemptive Purpose, and this is why also he was made or Created in the Image and Likeness of God in the beginning Gen 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Again, this is in accordance to the Mystery hid in God Eph 3:9

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 187

 

[savedbymercy]

[16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” [18] we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, [20] knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. [21] For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:16-21 ESV)​

Peter is encouraging his hearers, especially as it relates to the truthfulness of the claims of and about Christ. Here are some highlights:

1. These things are not myths; Peter (and others) were eyewitnesses.
2. Jesus was "confirmed" by God the Father Himself; Peter (and others) heard His very words.
3. The Prophetic word (referring back to the Prophets who foretold the coming of Christ; see 1 Peter 1) is more fully confirmed (as if it even needed to be confirmed in the first place).
4. The prophecy found in scripture is not the product of man nor his imagination. True prophets spoke the very words of God carried along by the Holy Spirit.

So, what Peter is saying here is that there is, essentially, one interpretation of scripture and it's what God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, conveyed through men. Moreover, what was prophesied will come to pass--since it has been spoken by God.

The Archangel

Just remember, you are now obligated to always present a context explanation with all your quotes, or you are going to be a hypocrit !

I dont have to do that because I believe in Biblical Topical Teaching ! I can see Topics in Scripture and I am able to support those topics from other various portions of scripture !

 

[savedbymercy]

archangel

So.... I take it you think yourself on the same level with Jesus or Paul, then????

No, and thats a dishonest slander on your part. The point however is, you are imposing on me and others a premise that you obviously have no biblical basis for since you cant find any Biblical writer utilizing or speaking of ! So its a merely a Pharisaical precept of men that you are imposing ! It aids you in feeding your puffed up vain glory and pride and to hide behind it as a excuse when you are threatened by someone with more scripture knowledge than yourself ! It all caters to your pride and arrogance !