Single BIGGEST Biblical Reason Why You Do/Do not believe In TULIP!

[annsni]

Calvinist or not, anyone who believes that Christ died for our sins and rose again on the third day is saved.

Then Jehovah's Witnesses are saved.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Salvation is what we receive because of regeneration.

I hate to be contrary, but regeneration is what we recieve because of salvation. We are made new when we are saved, not before. (though I do believe as someone above who said the events were simultaneous)

 

[annsni]

I hate to be contrary, but regeneration is what we recieve because of salvation. We are made new when we are saved, not before. (though I do believe as someone above who said the events were simultaneous)

So we become regenerated because we possess salvation? That is not Biblical Regeneration is new life. Salvation is the benefit of that new life. Salvation is not the cause of new life. If it is, can you show me the Scripture to support that idea?

 

[webdog]

If that is your belief, yes.

I just cannot stand the idea of either side claiming that the other is forming their theology apart from Scripture. BOTH sides strive to have a biblical understanding of theology. The problem is that we are not infallible, so our understandings can be incorrect.

I can believe that Scripture means one thing while you believe it means another. Either of us or both of us could be wrong. I don't have to contend that you are creating the theology out of your personal preferences.

I sincerely believe that non-Calvinists (as represented here, not liberal theologians) hold to their position because they believe the Scriptures to teach it. I believe the same of Calvinists here.

For all the debate, it is important to remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

I was actually askin it from your perspective. You claimed to have been a non cal, a cal, a non cal again a couple years back, and returned back to calvinism.

 

[webdog]

Double post

 

[JesusFan]

So we become regenerated because we possess salvation? That is not Biblical Regeneration is new life. Salvation is the benefit of that new life. Salvation is not the cause of new life. If it is, can you show me the Scripture to support that idea?

Wouldn't those Spiritual DEAD in their sins have to first be regenerated by God in order to place in a condition then able to become saved by grace of God?

Think that regeneration/faith happen so close together its like same event, than comes the actual saved by faith thru grace....

 

[StefanM]

I was actually askin it from your perspective. You claimed to have been a non cal, a cal, a non cal again a couple years back, and returned back to calvinism.

I have been back and forth on the issue, admittedly. I'm not sure I understand what you were asking me initially, though. Could you clarify for me?

 

[menageriekeeper]

So we become regenerated because we possess salvation? That is not Biblical Regeneration is new life. Salvation is the benefit of that new life. Salvation is not the cause of new life. If it is, can you show me the Scripture to support that idea?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Salvation first, belief second, "seal of the Holy Spirit" third. The sealing of the Holy spirit is the regeneration you speak of. Can the Holy Spirit inhabit unregenerated man?

 

[Winman]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Salvation first, belief second, "seal of the Holy Spirit" third. The sealing of the Holy spirit is the regeneration you speak of. Can the Holy Spirit inhabit unregenerated man?

That is not what it says. It says they first HEARD. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Second, they believed the gospel. Third, they received the Spirit. This is when a person is regenerated and made spiritually alive. You are not saved, you do not belong to Jesus until you receive the Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You do not receive the Spirit until you first hear the Word of God and believe.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

We do not receive the Spirit until we #1 HEAR, #2 BELIEVE, #3 SEALED BY THE SPIRIT/ RECEIVE THE SPIRIT. Galatians 2:2 proves that faith precedes regeneration, because you cannot receive the Spirit until you first hear and believe. And if you do not have the Spirit, you do not belong to Christ, you are not saved.

 

[Rippon]

There must have been a reason God didn't choose everyone.

Because it was His will. Everyone deserves eternal death. He chose(before the foundation of the world) to have mercy on some and harden the rest.

You believe election instead was based on a random selection which leaves you depending on the condition of fate, or fatalism.

No Calvinist believes that blasphemy.

I marvel at the twisted minds of those anti-Cals who cannot leave election in the hands of Almighty God without saying that the Lord's selection is random and mercurial.

With God not being willing that any perish, again everyone would be saved.

Well,with the non-Cal spin on 2 Peter 3:9 it's no wonder that some come to Universalistic conclusions.

 

[menageriekeeper]

We do not receive the Spirit until we #1 HEAR, #2 BELIEVE, #3 SEALED BY THE SPIRIT/ RECEIVE THE SPIRIT.

Sorry Winman. I wasn't clear. #1. The offer of salvation first.

 

[kyredneck]

Regeneration does not mean salvation. They are two different terms. Salvation is what we receive because of regeneration. I've never heard anyone say that they are the two words for the same thing.

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Salvation first, belief second, "seal of the Holy Spirit" third. The sealing of the Holy spirit is the regeneration you speak of. Can the Holy Spirit inhabit unregenerated man?

No, they heard the gospel of salvation - not that they were saved.

 

[annsni]

Wouldn't those Spiritual DEAD in their sins have to first be regenerated by God in order to place in a condition then able to become saved by grace of God?

Think that regeneration/faith happen so close together its like same event, than comes the actual saved by faith thru grace....

That's how I see it. A dead man can not respond. He must be quickened first.

 

[webdog]

That's how I see it. A dead man can not respond. He must be quickened first.

Lazarus had no problem responding and no mentioning of "quickening" in order to respond either. That is eisegesis.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Well,you are right in one way,He's not up in Heaven picking folks to save now. The Lord chose the ones He was to save before the world was formed.

He has the perfect right to select some and pass by others since all of us deserve damnation. He mercies those He chooses to mercy. He also hardens those whom He wishes to harden.

Biblical election doesn't operate under Democratic principles. The Lord elects. That automatically means He doesn't chose each and every person who has,is,and shall live.

Thank you for articulating it so clearly.

What you posted is clearly the view of 5 point Calvinists. That God chooses to save some, while choosing to discard others.

And it is that teaching that caused me to cast aside Calvinism forever.

The scriptures are so very clear that everyone who comes into the world, and can understand the gosple, is given revelation that they can understand, and respond positively to...or reject.

God is NOT rejecting people, as Calvinism clearly teaches...PEOPLE are choosing to reject God.

 

[quantumfaith]

Thank you for articulating it so clearly.

What you posted is clearly the view of 5 point Calvinists. That God chooses to save some, while choosing to discard others.

And it is that teaching that caused me to cast aside Calvinism forever.

The scriptures are so very clear that everyone who comes into the world, and can understand the gosple, is given revelation that they can understand, and respond positively to...or reject.

God is NOT rejecting people, as Calvinism clearly teaches...PEOPLE are choosing to reject God.

Thank you AIC for being so simple, concise, articulate and spot on.

 

[Rippon]

Well,you are right in one way,He's not up in Heaven picking folks to save now. The Lord chose the ones He was to save before the world was formed.

He has the perfect right to select some and pass by others since all of us deserve damnation. He mercies those He chooses to mercy. He also hardens those whom He wishes to harden.

Biblical election doesn't operate under Democratic principles. The Lord elects. That automatically means He doesn't chose each and every person who has,is,and shall live.

AiC,please go line-by-line in the above post and tell me why you diasagree.

 

[annsni]

Lazarus had no problem responding and no mentioning of "quickening" in order to respond either. That is eisegesis.

He walked out, didn't he? Was he dead when he walked out? When he was dead, did he hear Christ speak?

 

[preachinjesus]

I was a bit quirky with my ROSES comment earlier....

but on a more serious note, while some have (rightly) noted John 3:16, my primary biblical reasons for not being Reformed lie in Luke 7:59-62.

Why would Jesus call people who immediately denied Him if Reformed theology is true? Under my reading of The Institutes and other formative documents (I'm thinking Hermann Bavinck also here) when Jesus calls people they must follow Him. Yet here is an example of that not happening. Is this just for show? How does the Reformed position coherently explain this passage?