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Sixty Days of Jail Time for Backyard Bible Study
- Thread starter freeatlast
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freeatlast
New Member
watch the video.
Look, anyone can do a google on "Michael Salman Pheonix" and come up with 4 million pages.
This is a very popular news item.
Here is the reason why (IMO):
When the enemies of righteousness want to topple a traditional institution or a "sacred cow" they start with a border line case with circumstances on each side of opposing concepts.
When the "death with dignity" (aka : assisted suicide) arguments start up in a State wishing to enact or debate the possibility of assisited suicide they always start with a case like Terry Schiavo who hung between border line conciousness and death and had to be kept alive by high technology machines.
To pull the plug or not, that was the question.
And in fact many made a scriptural case to pull the plug others called it murder.
In reality it was probably a belwether to take the moral temperature of society and at very least to get the discussion going and get people used to the idea of "death with dignity". Eventually they pulled the plug and she died.
That is not to say it is immoral to let people die when they can only stay alive by 21st century high technology machines and/or will never come out of a vegetative state.
But no sooner had it started here in the State of WA when folks started killing themselves who were fully conscious and not actually suffering extreme pain as they were on pain killers. I watched an actual TV documentary of a "dignified" death of a fully conscious man who appeared not to be suffering but wanted "the cocktail" to avoid what he was told would be a miserable death. So he drank it and died.
Of course a flock of medical types were there to "assist" him.
So they advanced the concept of poor Terry's case to a fully conscious man who wanted to end it all because he had been talked into it.
So much for the Hippocratic Oath.
The next step: a fully conscious individual who does not want to end it all but the death has been ordered by a medical expert who declares the individual "hopeless" (but is actually "helpless" and at the mercy of his/her euthanizers (aka murderers).
It can happen. When I was a young man if somebody told me that one day healthy babies could be legally killed in the womb of its mother while late term and viable by poisoning the child, I would have said "absolutely impossible". Not only that but now there are those who are talking about killing the child outside the womb in the case of a botched abortion.
Whats next?
So what has this to do with the Michael Salman case?
It is not the right or wrong of his case. IMO his case is also a belwether, one of many to come to test the social climate and advance the last and greatest persecution of Christians this world has ever seen.
It will take time to advance, probably not in my pilgrimage here on earth but some of you will probably have to endure it.
Of course we are saved from the wrath of God (The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord) but not His chastisement.
This is a very popular news item.
Here is the reason why (IMO):
When the enemies of righteousness want to topple a traditional institution or a "sacred cow" they start with a border line case with circumstances on each side of opposing concepts.
When the "death with dignity" (aka : assisted suicide) arguments start up in a State wishing to enact or debate the possibility of assisited suicide they always start with a case like Terry Schiavo who hung between border line conciousness and death and had to be kept alive by high technology machines.
To pull the plug or not, that was the question.
And in fact many made a scriptural case to pull the plug others called it murder.
In reality it was probably a belwether to take the moral temperature of society and at very least to get the discussion going and get people used to the idea of "death with dignity". Eventually they pulled the plug and she died.
That is not to say it is immoral to let people die when they can only stay alive by 21st century high technology machines and/or will never come out of a vegetative state.
But no sooner had it started here in the State of WA when folks started killing themselves who were fully conscious and not actually suffering extreme pain as they were on pain killers. I watched an actual TV documentary of a "dignified" death of a fully conscious man who appeared not to be suffering but wanted "the cocktail" to avoid what he was told would be a miserable death. So he drank it and died.
Of course a flock of medical types were there to "assist" him.
So they advanced the concept of poor Terry's case to a fully conscious man who wanted to end it all because he had been talked into it.
So much for the Hippocratic Oath.
The next step: a fully conscious individual who does not want to end it all but the death has been ordered by a medical expert who declares the individual "hopeless" (but is actually "helpless" and at the mercy of his/her euthanizers (aka murderers).
It can happen. When I was a young man if somebody told me that one day healthy babies could be legally killed in the womb of its mother while late term and viable by poisoning the child, I would have said "absolutely impossible". Not only that but now there are those who are talking about killing the child outside the womb in the case of a botched abortion.
Whats next?
So what has this to do with the Michael Salman case?
It is not the right or wrong of his case. IMO his case is also a belwether, one of many to come to test the social climate and advance the last and greatest persecution of Christians this world has ever seen.
It will take time to advance, probably not in my pilgrimage here on earth but some of you will probably have to endure it.
Of course we are saved from the wrath of God (The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord) but not His chastisement.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
HankD
freeatlast
New Member
Hank, that is not correct about Terry Schiavo. She did not have the plug pulled. She was locked in a room with a guard at the door and a hospice care giver by her side while being refused food and water until she died of starvation and thirst. If that was done to a dying dog you would be arrested for cruelty.
Are you serious? So he can have fifty people over for a super bowl party, but he cannot have family and friends over to study the Bible??!!
I am sorry, but it is absolutely sickening to me that someone could even THINK that was o.k! What the heck is wrong with you? The guy has 4 acres of land. There is nothing "spilling over" into anything. The constitution GUARANTEES not only personal property rights, but also the "free" exercise of religion.
GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE!@ How does this country have a chance????@!!!!
freeatlast
New Member
You are correct. Our freedoms and rights are being stripped away by those in the church as fast as those in the world.
The government has no right to tell you what you can do on your property! And the constitution prohibits such impositions on the exercise of religion.
Who cares? Its his property. The Government needs to mind its own business.
Absolutely!! I don't care if they were doing drugs and trucking in hookers, as long as it was being done on their property, and it was not overflowing into the street or having lude acts visible to the public.
People need to butt out of other people's business. GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE!! What kind of a flippin nanny state do you guys want? "Oh, we can't do this on our property, unless the government tells us its o.k...Oh, we have to let the government tell us its safe..."
What the heck has happened to my country???!!:BangHead:
So you would have no problem if your next door neighbors Bible Study was a snake handling church?
Governments job is to protect me from others (not from myself) I am not sure of the size of the group - but 50 people on a recurring basis - is quite a group. As far as parking - well where are they parking- I have not seen info for pro or con.
No, I have not yet watched the video, but will do so when I get time. Keep in mind that news reporting can be very bias - from either side - I prefer to get all three sides of a story.
Salty
freeatlast
New Member
Salty What was the government protecting others from in this case?
Zoning and licensing regulations - protect the peace of the neighborhood.
Zoning and licensing regulations - protect citizens from unsafe traffic patterns - ie. high volumes of traffic in a residential neighborhood.
Building codes - protect occupants and neighbors from safety hazards such as fire.
freeatlast
New Member
If you rerally believe this about this issue then you do not deserve the freedom you have and more important you will most likely lose it also.
Last edited by a moderator:
Certainly does not sound like a simple home Bible study to me, not from the quotes Jerome pasted.
Jerome pasted the following: Salman explains himself on the interwebs:
About Pastor Michael Salman
Quote:
Pastor Michael Salman is a Pastor of the Christian Faith. He was Ordained in 1996 by the Elders of the Church of God in Christ - Pastors Roy Hadnot and James Moore in Winslow, Arizona. He holds various Biblical Degrees through Harvesters Bible College and Western Theological Seminary. Pastor Salman also holds other biblical certifications through Emmaus Bible College & StoneCroft and is a Certified Truth Project Instructor through Arizona Bible College In Phoenix Arizona.
Harvest Christian Fellowship
Quote:
We knew that this would be a great place to raise a familya [sic] nd [sic] live our faith according tot [sic] he [sic] Bible. We bagan [sic] having Bible Studies and worship in our home every Thursday. We invited our neighbors who attended every Thursday at our home. We then moved our days to every Wednesday and Sunday. We continued worshipping together as Christ commands us in His word in my private home with family and friends who had been invited by us. Since our home was getting a little crowded we decided to build a 2000 square foot accessory building in the back that would be able to serve our family needs. We then moved the worship from our living room and dedicated that building for worship. We then began worshipping in the building in my backyard. (BTW: We do have permits for the building as an Accessory Building.) After meeting in the building for a couple of months we got raided by the Phoenix Police Department and violated [sic?] for operating an A3 structure without a building [sic?].
Quote:
We meet every Sunday at 10:00 am by invitation only.* (*The Meetings at the home of Pastor Michael Salman are not connected to HCF.) If you look at the map below it would be obvious that our home is large enough to accompany our guest [sic].
Jerome pasted the following: Salman explains himself on the interwebs:
About Pastor Michael Salman
Quote:
Pastor Michael Salman is a Pastor of the Christian Faith. He was Ordained in 1996 by the Elders of the Church of God in Christ - Pastors Roy Hadnot and James Moore in Winslow, Arizona. He holds various Biblical Degrees through Harvesters Bible College and Western Theological Seminary. Pastor Salman also holds other biblical certifications through Emmaus Bible College & StoneCroft and is a Certified Truth Project Instructor through Arizona Bible College In Phoenix Arizona.
Harvest Christian Fellowship
Quote:
We knew that this would be a great place to raise a familya [sic] nd [sic] live our faith according tot [sic] he [sic] Bible. We bagan [sic] having Bible Studies and worship in our home every Thursday. We invited our neighbors who attended every Thursday at our home. We then moved our days to every Wednesday and Sunday. We continued worshipping together as Christ commands us in His word in my private home with family and friends who had been invited by us. Since our home was getting a little crowded we decided to build a 2000 square foot accessory building in the back that would be able to serve our family needs. We then moved the worship from our living room and dedicated that building for worship. We then began worshipping in the building in my backyard. (BTW: We do have permits for the building as an Accessory Building.) After meeting in the building for a couple of months we got raided by the Phoenix Police Department and violated [sic?] for operating an A3 structure without a building [sic?].
Quote:
We meet every Sunday at 10:00 am by invitation only.* (*The Meetings at the home of Pastor Michael Salman are not connected to HCF.) If you look at the map below it would be obvious that our home is large enough to accompany our guest [sic].
Nope, no problem at all. I of course do not approve of such things, but it is his business, not mine. Perhaps you missed it when I said:
"Absolutely!! I don't care if they were doing drugs and trucking in hookers, as long as it was being done on their property, and it was not overflowing into the street or having lude acts visible to the public."
The other neighbors, FYI, are already having large get togethers. Perhaps you missed the part where the commercial code specifically addressing churches, is being imposed on him. The city of Phoenix is fine with 50 people getting together and getting drunk. But they cannot have a Bible study, cause then it becomes a "church" and is under commercial code. That is ridiculous.
Doesn't matter what it is. Others are allowed to gather in large groups to get drunk, etc. He should not be penalized simply because he is having Bible study. In fact, what he is doing is protected under the first amendment. The Government can make "NO LAW" regarding the "Free exercise" of religion. So unless the city is paying for the improvements...
You oppose building codes?
You oppose zoning regulations?
There are two rights involved in this case - the free exercise of religion and property rights.
You seem to think that the exercise of religion trumps property rights.
Do believe that one party looses their property rights because the neighbor exerts his exercise of religion rights?
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