"As a Baptist.. I don't hate him.. I dislike his policies.." The sum of it all! :saint:
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So why do you American Baptists hate Obama so much?
- Thread starter Onlybygrace
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Onlybygrace
New Member
WOW...
I see this is a really sensitive issue, OK let me try and clear up one or two things, well 6 actually.
1. I am not a TROLL...I repeat, I am not a troll...I repeat I am not a troll...ad infinitum...er, what's a troll guys?
2. The only thing I see the bible instructing us to do regarding our leaders is A. Obey them and B. Pray for them, and I don't see too much of that being said on the site regarding your president.
3. Maybe Obama is as you claim openly promoting abortion and commiting other atrocities but these things have alwas been going on and since the previous presidents did not go out of their way to prevent it happening is silent passivity in regard to a moral issue not just the flipside of open activity? Surely they too knew it was wrong and should have used their power to prevent it. To know what to do and not to do it is also sin. So what makes him so much worse than them? Are there any archives here ripping into Bush? I for one would like to read them.
4. Someone said I should be a little more cautious about what I say since I have apartheid in my rear view mirror. I have made it clear that I am not tackling a race issue because it is not an issue for me, but some of you seem intent on mentioning that...rather check your own conscience, maybe it is an issue for you . And as far as apartheid, the fact is I'm a black South African and suffered at the hands of Apartheid so I have no guilt as far as that diabolic system is concerned.
5. I was under the impression that America had a really large Christian population, in fact a few years ago America could have been called a Christian nation. How is it then that these kinds of people keep getting voted in when such a large Christian majority is, I assume, participating in the voting process?
6. Lastly, I am a he, for future reference.
I see this is a really sensitive issue, OK let me try and clear up one or two things, well 6 actually.
1. I am not a TROLL...I repeat, I am not a troll...I repeat I am not a troll...ad infinitum...er, what's a troll guys?
2. The only thing I see the bible instructing us to do regarding our leaders is A. Obey them and B. Pray for them, and I don't see too much of that being said on the site regarding your president.
3. Maybe Obama is as you claim openly promoting abortion and commiting other atrocities but these things have alwas been going on and since the previous presidents did not go out of their way to prevent it happening is silent passivity in regard to a moral issue not just the flipside of open activity? Surely they too knew it was wrong and should have used their power to prevent it. To know what to do and not to do it is also sin. So what makes him so much worse than them? Are there any archives here ripping into Bush? I for one would like to read them.
4. Someone said I should be a little more cautious about what I say since I have apartheid in my rear view mirror. I have made it clear that I am not tackling a race issue because it is not an issue for me, but some of you seem intent on mentioning that...rather check your own conscience, maybe it is an issue for you . And as far as apartheid, the fact is I'm a black South African and suffered at the hands of Apartheid so I have no guilt as far as that diabolic system is concerned.
5. I was under the impression that America had a really large Christian population, in fact a few years ago America could have been called a Christian nation. How is it then that these kinds of people keep getting voted in when such a large Christian majority is, I assume, participating in the voting process?
6. Lastly, I am a he, for future reference.
Then why did you say "And now finally you have the first black president of the united states..."?
If race is not an issue, then why bring up his race?
So where was your concern over sticking the boot to President Bush?
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# 2 Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, ...
Yes, we should obey them... if they are leading under Gods leadership...
# 3 In the United States, the President is not able to make law - normally it must go thur a long process ( once in a while a"hot" issue can get pushed thur immediately). Therefore President Bush could not "outlaw" abortion in the United States, but The President can make policy for the Executive Dept. For example he could make abortion unauthorized in Military hospitals.
#5 How do these folks keep getting elected. Several excuses (not reasons) First incumbents have a 90+ % re-election rate. One reason for this is that seniority ( by length of service - not age) gives an representative more leverage in the House of Reps or Senate. A person with much seniority then is able to bring the "bacon" (lots of money for his district) home. So even if they disagree with his policies, they like the financial impact for their district. And it takes a lot of money for a campaign as well ( which must be raised independently)
Also, many people vote for the political party without knowing his stand on any of the issues. One other thing, the political ads only give a one-liner such as "Change now", "Lower taxes", "Make a better city" and so forth.
Often most politic ans are very vague when they give speeches.
One of the biggest reasons is apathy! Often only 30 -40% of registered votes may cast a ballot. When you consider those not registered, then only 15-25 per cent of eligible voters make the decision for the rest of us.
Salty
ps, I have run for office myself, and I was very open on my issues. Maybe thats why I did not win...
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BigBossman
Active Member
I wouldn't say that I hate Obama. That would be just a little too strong. I will go on the record to say that I don't like him. I believe that anyone is capable of change, even Obama.
I don't think I can be short about the reasons I have about disliking him, but I'll do the best I can.
* The truth is he supports major tax increases. He spends the tax money of ours wastefully. In his first 60 days in office, he wasted more tax payer dollars than G.W. & Bill Clinton combined during their combined 16 years in office.
* He is a big supporter of abortion. Abortion is nothing more than legalized murder.
* He so consumed with trying to appease Europeans, Muslims, dictators, & other foreign officials.
* He has constantly blamed his predecessor (G.W. Bush) for his problems. At some point, he will have to accept responsibility for his shortcomings.
* He been doing everything he can to expand the powers of the federal government. This comes in many forms: hampering free speech, preventing honest & making it harder for law-abiding citizens to own a gun to protect themselves just to name a couple.
* He has done nothing to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into our nation. I have no problem with legal immigrants. Any immigrant who has come here legally, should be outraged at the illegals that are here. From what I understand, it takes weeks or even months to get a green card.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
I don't care that he's black. His skin color means nothing to me. However, when your opinions differ from the president you are either labelled "unpatriotic" (as with G.W. Bush) or "a racist" (as with Obama).
I am very particular about who I vote for. I will always vote for the most conservative candidate. Unfortunately, our two main parties (the Democrats & the Republicans) have not put quality conservatives as their front runner. Ronald Reagan was the last true conservative our nation has had as a president.
I don't think I can be short about the reasons I have about disliking him, but I'll do the best I can.
* The truth is he supports major tax increases. He spends the tax money of ours wastefully. In his first 60 days in office, he wasted more tax payer dollars than G.W. & Bill Clinton combined during their combined 16 years in office.
* He is a big supporter of abortion. Abortion is nothing more than legalized murder.
* He so consumed with trying to appease Europeans, Muslims, dictators, & other foreign officials.
* He has constantly blamed his predecessor (G.W. Bush) for his problems. At some point, he will have to accept responsibility for his shortcomings.
* He been doing everything he can to expand the powers of the federal government. This comes in many forms: hampering free speech, preventing honest & making it harder for law-abiding citizens to own a gun to protect themselves just to name a couple.
* He has done nothing to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into our nation. I have no problem with legal immigrants. Any immigrant who has come here legally, should be outraged at the illegals that are here. From what I understand, it takes weeks or even months to get a green card.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
I don't care that he's black. His skin color means nothing to me. However, when your opinions differ from the president you are either labelled "unpatriotic" (as with G.W. Bush) or "a racist" (as with Obama).
I am very particular about who I vote for. I will always vote for the most conservative candidate. Unfortunately, our two main parties (the Democrats & the Republicans) have not put quality conservatives as their front runner. Ronald Reagan was the last true conservative our nation has had as a president.
A few more points from a non-American POV:
1. Most of the Christians over in the UK are pro-Obama and were not too keen on Bush
2. The main reason for this is that Obama and Bush are/were judged outside of the US far more for their foreign rather than domestic policies. Thus UK Christians would applaud Obama's rather more ethical and Christian (as we would see it) foreign policy: an end to detention without trial at Gitmo, review of 'extraordinary rendition'/ torture etc (we tend to sadly overlook Bush's contribution to aid to Africa and such like) and either be ignorant of or ignore his liberal policies on same-sex marriage, abortion & stem-cell research etc which would deeply trouble us were we evangelicals in the US, simply because the former affect or potentially affect us and the latter don't.
3. The other economic and political issues are, ISTM, neither here nor there if one is a Christian; in the UK you will find evangelicals who are both pro- and anti- higher taxes, bigger government etc - but these are far more matters of political ideology than religion.
1. Most of the Christians over in the UK are pro-Obama and were not too keen on Bush
2. The main reason for this is that Obama and Bush are/were judged outside of the US far more for their foreign rather than domestic policies. Thus UK Christians would applaud Obama's rather more ethical and Christian (as we would see it) foreign policy: an end to detention without trial at Gitmo, review of 'extraordinary rendition'/ torture etc (we tend to sadly overlook Bush's contribution to aid to Africa and such like) and either be ignorant of or ignore his liberal policies on same-sex marriage, abortion & stem-cell research etc which would deeply trouble us were we evangelicals in the US, simply because the former affect or potentially affect us and the latter don't.
3. The other economic and political issues are, ISTM, neither here nor there if one is a Christian; in the UK you will find evangelicals who are both pro- and anti- higher taxes, bigger government etc - but these are far more matters of political ideology than religion.
Fair enough request.
I'm sorry, but I cannot adequately answer this with a 'short' answer. Yet I will answer.
As you yourself noted, you are not a (United States) American. We elect a President and Vice-President to a four year term, by a representative system commonly known as the Electoral College, which is a geneerally proportional representation of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, the Capital city that is the seat fo the United States government. Once these individuals are 'qualified' for these offices, they are seated for this entire term (any popularity or unpopularity notwithstanding) and these offices are vacated in only four possible ways, with procedures (now) in place to fill any vacancies that may occur, including succession to the office of President.
As to the manner of the vacating of the office -
(1.) The first is obviously by death, and 8 Presidents have died in office, 4 by natural causes, and 4 were assassinated. In addition, 7 Vice-Presidents have died in office as well, all from natural causes.
(2.) The second is by resignation, and 1 Presidents and 2 Vice-Presidents have vacated their office, in this manner.
(3.) The office of Vice President has been 'vacated' a total of 18 times, (and filled twice) with the aforementioned 7 deaths, two resignations, and 9 times when the Vice-President acceded to the office of President.
(4.) The only other way of the vacating of these offices is by impeachment of any and/or all "civil officers" for "Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and misdemeanors" by the US House of Representatives and conviction by 2/3 of the US Senate, the two 'arms' of the United States Legislative 'branch' of our government. 17 individuals have been so impeached, including 2 Presidents, and 13 judges. No Presidents have been convicted, although 7 individuals were convicted and removed from office, all of whom were judges.
Had some of the early founders had their way, notably George Mason, "maladministration" (or incompetence) would have also been an inmpeachable offense, Had that been adopted, I suspect the numbers of impeached and convicted individuals may have been much higher, or at least should have been, for I will suggest that there actually should (or at least could) have been a rather long "waiting line" for such, over the some 45 or so years of my adult life. :roilleyes:
The shadow of an impeachment trial has led to some other individuals resigning from office, however, including one President.
Well, that's how it is done, here. Unlike some Parliamentary systems, we do not remove and replace governments at any random time, based on strict popularity or some "no-confidence" vote, so we are pretty much 'stuck' with whomever is in these offices, outside the above cited instances, unless one of the Houses expels a member.
And although I believe at least some states can also 'recall' any or all of their Senators and/or Representatives, according to their Constitutions, this has never been done, and seems rather unlikely to happen in the future, given that this seems a likely conflict with the provisions of the US Constitution.
Ed
==Comparing Obama to Hilter and pol pot is a bit radical. As for hate, it is a sin. The Bible declares that, "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1Jn 3:14-15). You should also reference 1Timothy 2:1-8. Allowing your heart to be filled with hatred towards any human is wrong. We are to love not only our brothers but our enemies as well (Matth 5:43-48). You probably need to get away from politics and news for a few weeks/months and get your life refocused.
Just a brief warning (in love): As long as you deny your hatred for a person is a sin you will be trapped by that sin. You can't play God or put yourself in God's place. You must repent of your sin and ask the Lord to forgive you.
==The New Testament does not give us permission to pray prayers of judgment (imprecatory prayers). We are clearly told to love our enemies (Matt 5:44). You can hate his policies, you can hate his positions, but you must love him as a person. As a Christian you have no other option. Please, stop justifying your sin!
==Yes, the Old Testament is still valid. However this is a situation in which our Lord gave us clear word. He said,
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," (Matt. 5:43-44).
What did He say? "Love your enemies" and "pray for" (not against) "those who persecute you". What was allowed in the Old Testament on this point is not allowed under the New Testament. How do I know that? Because the Lord Jesus Christ clearly stated it. It is very clear. You have a choice here don't you. You can obey the clear Word of the Lord on this matter or you can disobey. The choice is yours. You need to repent! Your hatred towards President Obama will only harm you in the end.
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Might this be the "liberal love fest" you are referring to, I wonder?
Maybe you might wanna' consider praying a wee bit longer, given -historyb said:
- or pray FOR him, rather than about this.
Ed
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great post ed !!!
Historyb, I pray the Lod through the Holy Spirit will change your heart on this one...
Onlybygrace
New Member
REVMITCH SAYS
So where was your concern over sticking the boot to President Bush?
Well the truth be told I am simply reiterating what AMERICANS like Michale moorer and co. have pointed out to us about him. I have no vested interest in establishing a like or dislike or positive or negative opinion of any american pres. I'm just asking. And I was purposely derrogatory toward Bush and Clinton to see what response it would illicit and here you are defending bush. Is he more deserving of it than Obama? Surely any presidets policies are just a reflection of his personal beliefs and convictions but an expression of party thinking and that of pressure and interest groups. But some of the posts about OBAMA on the site have a distinctively personal tone and yet his personal life when compared with the other two for now seems far better, and surely your persoanl life is more a reflection od your character than your national policies?
AS FOR JOHNDEEREFAN WHO SAYS
Then why did you say "And now finally you have the first black president of the united states..."?
If race is not an issue, then why bring up his race?
My response is then if it is not an issue for you why are you the one that continues to harp on it? Do you want to pretend he is not black and that his challenges are not unique because he is black. I am not saying that that is why people dislike him but I do say that it is an historical fact. He is different. He comes from a people who came from my continent to yours as slaves and now he sits on the ultimate seat of power in your country. The same happened in mine. You are naive to think that any person of colour in any position is just like every white person...we are not all the same, maybe in value but not in experience or mindset.
But just to humour you and help you to not try and avoid the issue I will edith post and remove that statement. Maybe it will make the question easier to answer and less easy to avoid!
So where was your concern over sticking the boot to President Bush?
Well the truth be told I am simply reiterating what AMERICANS like Michale moorer and co. have pointed out to us about him. I have no vested interest in establishing a like or dislike or positive or negative opinion of any american pres. I'm just asking. And I was purposely derrogatory toward Bush and Clinton to see what response it would illicit and here you are defending bush. Is he more deserving of it than Obama? Surely any presidets policies are just a reflection of his personal beliefs and convictions but an expression of party thinking and that of pressure and interest groups. But some of the posts about OBAMA on the site have a distinctively personal tone and yet his personal life when compared with the other two for now seems far better, and surely your persoanl life is more a reflection od your character than your national policies?
AS FOR JOHNDEEREFAN WHO SAYS
Then why did you say "And now finally you have the first black president of the united states..."?
If race is not an issue, then why bring up his race?
My response is then if it is not an issue for you why are you the one that continues to harp on it? Do you want to pretend he is not black and that his challenges are not unique because he is black. I am not saying that that is why people dislike him but I do say that it is an historical fact. He is different. He comes from a people who came from my continent to yours as slaves and now he sits on the ultimate seat of power in your country. The same happened in mine. You are naive to think that any person of colour in any position is just like every white person...we are not all the same, maybe in value but not in experience or mindset.
But just to humour you and help you to not try and avoid the issue I will edith post and remove that statement. Maybe it will make the question easier to answer and less easy to avoid!
Thanks, although my purpose was certainly not to receive any accolades.
I do suspect it would be difficult for me to hate anyone while, at the same time, praying FOR them.
raying:Ed
You might wanna' consider finding a better source than "Michael Moore and Co." for almost anything, be it good or bad.
Ed
Really??? Where have I ever "harped" on it? My criticisms of Obama have always been based on his policies and his fitness for office, not his race.
Need I remind you that you're the one who made his race an issue, not me.
I didn't bring it up. You brought it up in your OP.
Funny, but if you said that here, you'd be called a racist.
We do not judge people by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Yep, troll. Just as I suspected.
No you have an agenda to defend Obama. I did not defend Bush I simply asked a question that reveals your agenda.
You are wrong
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