Sovereign Election

[Rippon]

Calvinism cannot be defended scripturally or logically, it is unbiblical and irrational. Thus the opponents of Calvinism are demeaned and demonized. And so it goes....

And the above are a common hypocritical theme in Van's posts.

Here is what he said on 11/12/2011 :"Folks, deception is the stock and trade of Calvinism."

Here is his take on 11/21/2011 : "100% of the Calvinists use deception."

Or how about his opinion on 2/21/2014 : "...this thread is about the decption used by Calvinists to deceive the body of Christ."

Those are the words from the guy who pleads that Calvinists demean and demonize their opponents.

But, as usual, he places high value on his own posts: "I have not seen that any of my points has been shown to miss the mark." (4/4/2011)

 

[robustheologian]

And the above are a common hypocritical theme in Van's posts.

Here is what he said on 11/12/2011 :"Folks, deception is the stock and trade of Calvinism."

Here is his take on 11/21/2011 : "100% of the Calvinists use deception."

Or how about his opinion on 2/21/2014 : "...this thread is about the decption used by Calvinists to deceive the body of Christ."

Those are the words from the guy who pleads that Calvinists demean and demonize their opponents.

But, as usual, he places high value on his own posts: "I have not seen that any of my points has been shown to miss the mark." (4/4/2011)

You are absolutely right. If he had any good arguments his arrogance would overshadow them. Doctrinal truth is the result of bible study AND prayer. His arrogance shows that there is obviously a lack of prayer...which then explains why he is unable to see his bad theology.

 

[savedbymercy]

Once again the Calvinists have had no answers, other than I am a deeply flawed believer.

Saved by Mercy ignores the issue that 1 Cor. 2:14-3:3 teaches men of flesh can understand spiritual milk. Instead, he posts yet another verse that does not actually support Total Spiritual Inability. No effort to address the truth of the 1 Corinthians passage.

Likewise Robusttheologian, points to my supposed behavioral flaws, and then returns to his advanced study, never saying why he believes men who were entering heaven were not seeking God effectively, as taught in Matthew 23:13.

Calvinism cannot be defended scripturally or logically, it is unbiblical and irrational. Thus the opponents of Calvinism are demeaned and demonized. And so it goes....

The natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him, he can't know them! That includes the Gospel!

 

[Van]

Just as I guessed, no answers but two efforts at shooting the messenger, and one deflection. SBM again ignores the issue of "the things of the Spirit," are they all things or some things? No answer will be provided, because the answer is some things, unregenerate and thus not indwelt people cannot understand spiritual meat. But they can spiritual milk. Absolutely no effort to even address this truth has been made.

We have discussed, well I have, 3 simple passages, Romans 3:10-11, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3, and Matthew 23:13. In a nutshell here is the observation:
a) "No one seeks God" when? All men at all times, the Calvinist addition or some men all the time, and some men some of the time, when they are sinning. The answer is some men never seek God, and no one seeks God all the time, because we all sin. But some men, as proven by Matthew 23:13 do seek God some of the time. Therefore Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken doctrine.
b) Fallen men cannot accept the things of the Spirit, 1 Corithians 2:14. Does this verse say all things or some things? It says neither, so we must use scripture to interpret scripture. We see, if we continue to read the passage, where Paul taught new born Christians as if they were men of flesh, presenting spiritual milk. Therefore according to this passage, fallen people cannot receive spiritual meat, but can receive and respond to spiritual milk.
c) Matthew 23:13 says fallen men were "entering heaven" thus they were seeking God effectively in a fallen state. They were not under the influence of irresistible grace because false teachers blocked them.

Bottom line, if we use Matthew 23:13 to interpret Romans 3:10-11 and 1 Cor. 2:14, we see that Calvinism is unbiblical.

 

[robustheologian]

Just as I guessed, no answers but two efforts at shooting the messenger, and one deflection. SBM again ignores the issue of "the things of the Spirit," are they all things or some things? No answer will be provided, because the answer is some things, unregenerate and thus not indwelt people cannot understand spiritual meat. But they can spiritual milk. Absolutely no effort to even address this truth has been made.

We have discussed, well I have, 3 simple passages, Romans 3:10-11, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3, and Matthew 23:13. In a nutshell here is the observation:
a) "No one seeks God" when? All men at all times, the Calvinist addition or some men all the time, and some men some of the time, when they are sinning. The answer is some men never seek God, and no one seeks God all the time, because we all sin. But some men, as proven by Matthew 23:13 do seek God some of the time. Therefore Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken doctrine.
b) Fallen men cannot accept the things of the Spirit, 1 Corithians 2:14. Does this verse say all things or some things? It says neither, so we must use scripture to interpret scripture. We see, if we continue to read the passage, where Paul taught new born Christians as if they were men of flesh, presenting spiritual milk. Therefore according to this passage, fallen people cannot receive spiritual meat, but can receive and respond to spiritual milk.
c) Matthew 23:13 says fallen men were "entering heaven" thus they were seeking God effectively in a fallen state. They were not under the influence of irresistible grace because false teachers blocked them.

Bottom line, if we use Matthew 23:13 to interpret Romans 3:10-11 and 1 Cor. 2:14, we see that Calvinism is unbiblical.

You lack the exegetical ability to determine what is unbiblical.

 

[Rippon]

You lack the exegetical ability to determine what is unbiblical.

Van is fine with annihilationalism and Open Theism.

Van has said: "More bogus charges from the eternal torment crowd." (12/07/2014)

Also : "Eternal torment seems a fiction based on shoddy Bible study." (12/08/2014)

And these quotes of his :

"Total omniscience should be put in the dust binb of history. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical." (11/14/2011)

"Folks, as you can see, the Closed Theists on this board have no scripture to support their view." (6/02/2011)
_______________________________________________________________________

Such views are certainly in oppostion to the Bible. And, even most non-Calvinists can join in with the Calvinists here to declare that Van's views are not in accord with Historical Theology.

 

[Yeshua1]

Once again the Calvinists have had no answers, other than I am a deeply flawed believer.

Saved by Mercy ignores the issue that 1 Cor. 2:14-3:3 teaches men of flesh can understand spiritual milk. Instead, he posts yet another verse that does not actually support Total Spiritual Inability. No effort to address the truth of the 1 Corinthians passage.

Likewise Robusttheologian, points to my supposed behavioral flaws, and then returns to his advanced study, never saying why he believes men who were entering heaven were not seeking God effectively, as taught in Matthew 23:13.

Calvinism cannot be defended scripturally or logically, it is unbiblical and irrational. Thus the opponents of Calvinism are demeaned and demonized. And so it goes....

Have you changed your views on Open theism, and on there not being an eternal Hell yet though?

For if you still hold to those false beliefs, how we trust you to be able to "rightly divide the word" in regards to sotierology proper then?

 

[Iconoclast]

robustheologian

You lack the exegetical ability to determine what is unbiblical

.

You are correct sir:thumbs: That will not stop Van however. Men have corrected him in the English , in the greek, and he keeps going like a timex watch;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NHq3Yze6s0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_fKppH8B0g

 

[convicted1]

You lack the exegetical ability to determine what is unbiblical.

Boo-yah!!!!! Obligatory (!!!) to make necessary character count...

 

[convicted1]

Van is fine with annihilationalism and Open Theism.

Van has said: "More bogus charges from the eternal torment crowd." (12/07/2014)

Also : "Eternal torment seems a fiction based on shoddy Bible study." (12/08/2014)

And these quotes of his :

"Total omniscience should be put in the dust binb of history. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical." (11/14/2011)

"Folks, as you can see, the Closed Theists on this board have no scripture to support their view." (6/02/2011)
_______________________________________________________________________

Such views are certainly in oppostion to the Bible. And, even most non-Calvinists can join in with the Calvinists here to declare that Van's views are not in accord with Historical Theology.

That's what happens when one strays off the freeway we call the bible. You end up crashing into a rockcliff, in a river, in a ditch, crashed into a telephone pole, on your top over the hill in the brush, &c...

 

[savedbymercy]

Just as I guessed, no answers but two efforts at shooting the messenger, and one deflection. SBM again ignores the issue of "the things of the Spirit," are they all things or some things? No answer will be provided, because the answer is some things, unregenerate and thus not indwelt people cannot understand spiritual meat. But they can spiritual milk. Absolutely no effort to even address this truth has been made.

We have discussed, well I have, 3 simple passages, Romans 3:10-11, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3, and Matthew 23:13. In a nutshell here is the observation:
a) "No one seeks God" when? All men at all times, the Calvinist addition or some men all the time, and some men some of the time, when they are sinning. The answer is some men never seek God, and no one seeks God all the time, because we all sin. But some men, as proven by Matthew 23:13 do seek God some of the time. Therefore Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken doctrine.
b) Fallen men cannot accept the things of the Spirit, 1 Corithians 2:14. Does this verse say all things or some things? It says neither, so we must use scripture to interpret scripture. We see, if we continue to read the passage, where Paul taught new born Christians as if they were men of flesh, presenting spiritual milk. Therefore according to this passage, fallen people cannot receive spiritual meat, but can receive and respond to spiritual milk.
c) Matthew 23:13 says fallen men were "entering heaven" thus they were seeking God effectively in a fallen state. They were not under the influence of irresistible grace because false teachers blocked them.

Bottom line, if we use Matthew 23:13 to interpret Romans 3:10-11 and 1 Cor. 2:14, we see that Calvinism is unbiblical.

None Seeks God. It does not say Sometimes none seeks God. Its just a statement of fact. Man by Nature does not understand or seek God, that is the True God, man seeks his idol gods of his own imagination by nature !

 

[Van]

None Seeks God. It does not say Sometimes none seeks God. Its just a statement of fact. Man by Nature does not understand or seek God, that is the True God, man seeks his idol gods of his own imagination by nature !

That is right, Romans 3:10-11 does not say none seek God at any time, it is just a statement that none seek God at some time.
Man by his nature does seek God some of the time, Matthew 23:13. They were not seeking idols, but actually seeking God in heaven!

No Calvinist can actually offer an answer, scripture is clear, Total spiritual Inability is unbiblical. The correct doctrine is Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat!

 

[savedbymercy]

That is right, Romans 3:10-11 does not say none seek God at any time, it is just a statement that none seek God at some time.
Man by his nature does seek God some of the time, Matthew 23:13. They were not seeking idols, but actually seeking God in heaven!

No Calvinist can actually offer an answer, scripture is clear, Total spiritual Inability is unbiblical. The correct doctrine is Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat!

It is a statement that none seek after God !

 

[percho]

Does God hate some babies and loves other babes before they do anything good or bad?

No. God calls some for purpose, before they have done anything good or bad.

Case 1; Let's say Jeremiah.

Why did the mother of Moses but him in a basket, in the bulrushes?

 

[Van]

It is a statement that none seek after God !

Yes, now you are cooking with gas, it is a statement that none seek after God all the time, but some seek after God some of the time.

Calvinism adds "at any time" and then denies the addition!

Note no effort to explain how the men of Matthew 23:13 were entering heaven if they were not seeking God some of the time!! No Calvinist can actually offer an answer, scripture is clear, Total spiritual Inability is unbiblical. The correct doctrine is Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat!

 

[savedbymercy]

Yes, now you are cooking with gas, it is a statement that none seek after God all the time, but some seek after God some of the time.

Calvinism adds "at any time" and then denies the addition!

Note no effort to explain how the men of Matthew 23:13 were entering heaven if they were not seeking God some of the time!! No Calvinist can actually offer an answer, scripture is clear, Total spiritual Inability is unbiblical. The correct doctrine is Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat!

None seek after God, get over it !

 

[The Archangel]

That is right, Romans 3:10-11 does not say none seek God at any time, it is just a statement that none seek God at some time.
Man by his nature does seek God some of the time, Matthew 23:13. They were not seeking idols, but actually seeking God in heaven!

No Calvinist can actually offer an answer, scripture is clear, Total spiritual Inability is unbiblical. The correct doctrine is Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat!

So... "All" always means all but "no one" doesn't always mean no one.

And you say we "shuck and jive." Pshaw...

The Archangel

 

[Van]

Calvinism adds "at any time" to none seek God. Then Calvinists pretend it is not an addition. Go figure.

"All" always means "all the author had it view" whether a small group or large.

The issue is not "no one" because that is what Paul is saying we all sin, so no one seeks God when they are sinning. Thus the verse that says no one seeks God proves we all sin some of the time.

Folks, Matthew 23:13 teaches that some unregenerate men do seek God some of the time, for they were actually entering heaven. Therefore, the Calvinist addition "at any time" is mistaken and unbiblical.
They will deny this till the cows come home, but such behavior does not alter the truth.

 

[savedbymercy]

Calvinism adds "at any time" to none seek God. Then Calvinists pretend it is not an addition. Go figure.

"All" always means "all the author had it view" whether a small group or large.

The issue is not "no one" because that is what Paul is saying we all sin, so no one seeks God when they are sinning. Thus the verse that says no one seeks God proves we all sin some of the time.

Folks, Matthew 23:13 teaches that some unregenerate men do seek God some of the time, for they were actually entering heaven. Therefore, the Calvinist addition "at any time" is mistaken and unbiblical.
They will deny this till the cows come home, but such behavior does not alter the truth.

Men by nature do not seek God, Do not understand God, Do not fear God ! Rom 3 !

 

[The Archangel]

Calvinism adds "at any time" to none seek God. Then Calvinists pretend it is not an addition. Go figure.

"All" always means "all the author had it view" whether a small group or large.

The issue is not "no one" because that is what Paul is saying we all sin, so no one seeks God when they are sinning. Thus the verse that says no one seeks God proves we all sin some of the time.

Of course, you're adding "some of the time." The verse neither says nor implies a "sometime" time-frame.

Also, Paul is not saying "we all sin." That is understood. He is specifically making the point that no one seeks after God. The reason that no one "understands" or "seeks God" is because no one is righteous. The non-seeking is a product of our inherent unrighteousness as sinners, not the cause of it.

The Archangel