Tell me about the CSB

[Shoostie]

Before creation is a different period than since creation. I have said this numerous times.
Thus the actions ascribed to before creation in fact occur since creation. When were names not written, and by inference other names written in the Lamb's book of life. Since creation in reality, before creation according to the mistranslation. If we were chosen individually before creation, as Calvinism claims, our names should have been written before creation. However, since our names are written since creation, we were individually chosen for salvation since creation.

So the mistranslation conforms to the bogus doctrine of Calvinism.

I'm going to give you the last word on this.

 

[Shoostie]

Names in the book. I hold a view all names are in the book because of my understanding that Christ paid for the sins of both the dead (the perishing) and the living (whom God saves), 1 John 2:2. The lost having their names removed, Revelation 20:15. Children who die prior to an age to believe are safe, Mark 10:14-15. Those who are born again, their names will never be removed, 1 John 5:4, Revelation 3:5, Revelation 21:7.

Do you believe everyone starts out saved, and then we can lose our salvation? The vast majority of Christians hold that you can't lose salvation (Calvinism and OSAS).

You should start a topic on this. It would be interesting to see comments by OSAS believer who believe in an age of accountability. If a baby dies, does he go to Hell or Heaven? If Heaven, then how can he lose his salvation later?

 

[Reformed1689]

No need, you have made your case. You are simply posting obvious falsehoods. What a waste.

Oh ho ho! @Van says TAINT SO

 

[37818]

Rev 20:15 does not say their names are removed. It is not found in the book. Rev 13:8 indicates their name was never written in the book.

Ok we disagree. But how? I understand Revelation 13:8 to teach simply those name are not written in tbe book. And that condition of not being in the book is since the making of mankind. Since it is my understand Christ paid for the sins of the whole world (mankind), all
names therefore started out in the book.

Now Revelation 20:15 simply teaches those whose names are not in the book perish.

As I said, it is my understanding all names started out in the book. If a name is not in the book it would have had to be removed.

Now the word of God speaks about names not being in the book, or not being removed. No promise ever of being added to the book.

 

[37818]

Do you believe everyone starts out saved, and then we can lose our salvation?

No. I believe little children start out safe, and unless one again becomes a child to God their names will be removed. Mark 10:14-15, John 3:3-4. . . .

 

[Reformed1689]

Since it is my understand Christ paid for the sins of the whole world (mankind), all
names therefore started out in the book.

Where from Scripture do you get that all names started out in the book? It doesn't say that. You are reading that into the text.

 

[37818]

You should start a topic on this.

I have.



Little children . . . .

 

[Van]

Oh ho ho! @Van says TAINT SO

The ESV has been shown to systematically alter the translation to better fit with the bogus assertions of Calvinism.

1) Revelation 13:8 changed since creation to before creation but forgot to alter Revelation 17:8.

2) James 2:5 added "to be" to change the election from conditioned on being rich in faith, to not yet being rich in faith.

3) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 changed a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to hide the fact we are individually chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.

I could go on, but why bother, the rebuttal will be "taint so."

 

[Reformed1689]

The ESV has been shown to systematically alter the translation to better fit with the bogus assertions of Calvinism.

1) Revelation 13:8 changed since creation to before creation but forgot to alter Revelation 17:8.

2) James 2:5 added "to be" to change the election from conditioned on being rich in faith, to not yet being rich in faith.

3) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 changed a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to hide the fact we are individually chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.

I could go on, but why bother, the rebuttal will be "taint so."

Again @Van offers no substance and cries TAINT SO!

 

[Van]

Again @Van offers no substance and cries TAINT SO!

An outright falsehood, I provided three verses where the ESV alters the text.

 

[Reformed1689]

An outright falsehood, I provided three verses where the ESV alters the text.

No, you have given three verses where you claim it alters the text even though multiple people have shown you how you are incorrect in that position. So again, @Van cries TAINT SO

 

[Van]

No, you have given three verses where you claim it alters the text even though multiple people have shown you how you are incorrect in that position. So again, @Van cries TAINT SO

People claimed there is no difference between before creation and since creation. They are obviously incorrect. We were chosen in Him corporately before creation and chosen individually for salvation since creation.

The ESV does not live up to its hype, the more you use it, the more problems stand out.

 

[Reformed1689]

People claimed there is no difference between before creation and since creation. They are obviously incorrect. We were chosen in Him corporately before creation and chosen individually for salvation since creation.

The ESV does not live up to its hype, the more you use it, the more problems stand out.

Van you clearly don't know what you are talking about and are wasting my time. We have already shown your errors on this subject and you are just making yourself look foolish. Have a good day.

 

[McCree79]

People claimed there is no difference between before creation and since creation. They are obviously incorrect.

Who did??? You claimed they have "opposite" meanings. You have failed to do so. Since and before are not opposite in meaning. As bad as you want, you cannot change the tense of the Greek verb to imply the verb "written" was done after the fact. It wasnt even done at the same time. The verb, if maintaining word order of NASB, requires an implication of "before"


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[Reformed1689]

Who did??? You claimed they have "opposite" meanings. You have failed to do so. Since and before are not opposite in meaning. As bad as you want, you cannot change the tense of the Greek verb to imply the verb "written" was done after the fact. It wasnt even done at the same time. The verb, if maintaining word order of NASB, requires an implication of "before"


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We are wasting our time with this one.

 

[Van]

Who did??? You claimed they have "opposite" meanings. You have failed to do so. Since and before are not opposite in meaning. As bad as you want, you cannot change the tense of the Greek verb to imply the verb "written" was done after the fact. It wasnt even done at the same time. The verb, if maintaining word order of NASB, requires an implication of "before"

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More nonsense, more deflection. Before creation falls on the opposite side of creation from since creation. For you to continue to obfuscate this obvious truth is disheartening.

The phrase, since the foundation of the world, modifies written, therefore the names were not written, and others by inference were written since the foundation of the world. And the tense of the verb indicates the continuing ongoing affect of what is written. Thus at the end of the age, the names not written (and by inference written) will still have affect.

 

[Reformed1689]

More nonsense, more deflection. Before creation falls on the opposite side of creation from since creation. For you to continue to obfuscate this obvious truth is disheartening.

The phrase, since the foundation of the world, modifies written, therefore the names were not written, and others by inference were written since the foundation of the world. And the tense of the verb indicates the continuing ongoing affect of what is written. Thus at the end of the age, the names not written (and by inference written) will still have affect.

This is pathetic.

 

[37818]

The phrase, since the foundation of the world, modifies written, therefore the names were not written, and . . .

That is interpretation. I understand it literaly. I take the meaning of not written (past tense). I do not take it to mean not to have ever been written.

Again I am of the persuasion names are blotted out, Psalms 69:28, or never to be blotted out, Revelation 3:5.

 

[Reformed1689]

That is interpretation. I understand it literaly. I take the meaning of not written (past tense). I do not take it to mean not to have ever been witten.

Again I am of the persuasion names are blotted out, Psalms 69:28, or never to be blotted out, Revelation 3:5.

Here is the major problem with that, those two verses are not talking about the same book.

 

[Van]

This is pathetic.

Yet another taint so post, demonstrating ignorance of the subject.