Temporary Salvationist 1-8

[Lacy Evans]

Friend, I cannot please every one. James requested that I do that rather than the bold colors that I was using, because he could not discern the past posts from the present ones. I'll see what I can do. -- Herb Evans

Just use the quote function. It's the little speech bubble right below the "redo" arrow. Highlight what you want to quote, then hit the quote icon. You can even quote within a quote.

I said

He said

She said

Lacy

Your post # 158 could look like this:

Lacy Evans said

You old trickster! Why in the sam hill are you debating Brother James then? And why don't you try that "If you don't believe like me, then you are not a real Christian" mess here where there are moderators? See if it works outside your little web-ring.

Well, you characterize my comments as that, but I never said that. That is a straw man of your making. I get along with many Christians that do not believe as I do. But heresy is something different.

After disfellowshipping Joey Faust, I treated him as a heathen man and a publican. Whether he is a brother in Christ, I know not. But I refuse to treat him as one. The reason that I am debating James is for the same reason that I debated Faust, so that folks could know what they teach and the dangers of it. I do not debate them to win a debate; I debate them to expose what they teach to others. -- Herb Evans

PS. How can you be sure Faust is not a Lacy-ite? My mention of Govett seemed to quiet the "I've been here since that doctrine was born" stuff. So call me names. It happens every time someone (after about five minutes) runs out of rational, Biblical arguments. When I argue for the KJV I'm a Ruckmanite. Whatever. Silly sticks and stones my friend.

Lacy

Well, I get called a Ruckmanite also. Get used to it and get over it. Still, up until now, I have not seen any of your biblical arguments. It does not seem that you want to commit yourself publically. Faust crows about Govett in his book; I read that a few years back. So what?-- Herb Evans

Much easier to read. PM me if you want.

 

[James_Newman]

Lacy Evans]You old trickster! Why in the sam hill are you debating Brother James then? And why don't you try that "If you don't believe like me, then you are not a real Christian" mess here where there are moderators? See if it works outside your little web-ring.

Well, you characterize my comments as that, but I never said that. That is a straw man of your making. I get along with many Christians that do not believe as I do. But heresy is something different.

After disfellowshipping Joey Faust, I treated him as a heathen man and a publican. Whether he is a brother in Christ, I know not. But I refuse to treat him as one. The reason that I am debating James is for the same reason that I debated Faust, so that folks could know what they teach and the dangers of it. I do not debate them to win a debate; I debate them to expose what they teach to others. -- Herb Evans

Well, we all know what I teach. Now what are the dangers again?

 

[James_Newman]

Both are true. My new body will be preserved. Are you trying to say that my old body will be preserved? That stinking rotting sinful body? Until the coming of the Lord Jesus? It begins to rot in less than a week. Wow, you are warped. -- Herb Evans

You seem to think there is a new body sitting in a jar of formaldehyde waiting for you while you drag the old one through the mud? I don't think you have a new body. I think God makes your old body new. What about this one?
1Co 15:51-52
51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Thats the stinking rotting sinful body, raised incorruptible. Jesus was raised bodily, was He not? Where was His old body? It wasn't there!

 

[Herb Evans]

[/b]Well, we all know what I teach. Now what are the dangers again?

Oh, c'mon, that is a time waster. get to the issues. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

You seem to think there is a new body sitting in a jar of formaldehyde waiting for you while you drag the old one through the mud? I don't think you have a new body. I think God makes your old body new. What about this one?

1Co 15:51-52
51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Thats the stinking rotting sinful body, raised incorruptible. Jesus was raised bodily, was He not? Where was His old body? It wasn't there!

Well, I like that passage. The corrupt and corrupted body changes from one thing to something else. The corrupt and corruptible body to the incorruptible body. The old body to the new body, then what happens to the new body? HUH? It gets killed and punished at the JSOC and thrown into hell fire as Faustites believe?

Now, to suggest that Jesus had a corruptible body or a sinful body or that it stunk or rotted is akin to blasphemy. Jesus' body was raised a glorified body, and our new body will be like unto his glorious body and not like unto our old sinful body. To put it succinctly, you ain't Jesus. You become more and more heretical as you go along with your damage control. -- Herb Evans

Thanks for the verse, but I did not need it.

 

[Herb Evans]

Just use the quote function. It's the little speech bubble right below the "redo" arrow. Highlight what you want to quote, then hit the quote icon. You can even quote within a quote.




Lacy

Your post # 158 could look like this:


Much easier to read. PM me if you want.

My, what a good work you have done. Perhaps, you will make the kingdom, even if you do not know it yet. You have taught me something. Thank you! -- Herb Evans

 

[James_Newman]

Well, I like that passage. The corrupt and corrupted body changes from one thing to something else. The corrupt and corruptible body to the incorruptible body. The old body to the new body, then what happens to the new body? HUH? It gets killed and punished at the JSOC and thrown into hell fire as Faustites believe?

Now, to suggest that Jesus had a corruptible body or a sinful body or that it stunk or rotted is akin to blasphemy. Jesus' body was raised a glorified body, and our new body will be like unto his glorious body and not like unto our old sinful body. To put it succinctly, you ain't Jesus. You become more and more heretical as you go along with your damage control. -- Herb Evans

Thanks for the verse, but I did not need it.

To put it succinctly, I can't find the term 'new body' anywhere in the bible. This has really been a long song and dance routine. Just because your body will be changed does not mean that you yourself will not be responsible for sins at the judgment seat of Christ. Jesus' body was every bit the same as yours and mine. The difference was what He did in it.

 

[James_Newman]

Oh, c'mon, that is a time waster. get to the issues. -- Herb Evans

I guess the danger is in getting Herb's dander up.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The 'pillories of heaven' are never mentioned in the Bible.
Heaven just doesn't contain any whipping posts

 

[Lacy Evans]

The 'pillories of heaven' are never mentioned in the Bible.
Heaven just doesn't contain any whipping posts

'Splain this verse to me, Ed.

Luke 12:41-48 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Lacy

 

[Lacy Evans]

My, what a good work you have done. Perhaps, you will make the kingdom, even if you do not know it yet. You have taught me something. Thank you! -- Herb Evans

Hey, You're liable to be kin! I can't have us Evans' looking ignert!

God bless and you are quite welcome! Your posts look very nice now!

lacy

 

[Herb Evans]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Evans
Well, I like that passage. The corrupt and corrupted body changes from one thing to something else. The corrupt and corruptible body to the incorruptible body. The old body to the new body, then what happens to the new body? HUH? It gets killed and punished at the JSOC and thrown into hell fire as Faustites believe?

Now, to suggest that Jesus had a corruptible body or a sinful body or that it stunk or rotted is akin to blasphemy. Jesus' body was raised a glorified body, and our new body will be like unto his glorious body and not like unto our old sinful body. To put it succinctly, you ain't Jesus. You become more and more heretical as you go along with your damage control. -- Herb Evans

Thanks for the verse, but I did not need it.


To put it succinctly, I can't find the term 'new body' anywhere in the bible. This has really been a long song and dance routine. Just because your body will be changed does not mean that you yourself will not be responsible for sins at the judgment seat of Christ. Jesus' body was every bit the same as yours and mine. The difference was what He did in it.

Wow! The blasephemy continues! I won't dignify that sinful talk with an answer. You can't find a lot of things at the JSOC and I hell fire, but you propagate them anyway to those who fall for them. So now, we have it on record that Christians do not get a new body. I thought bad Christians missing heaven when they die was bad enough. That is it, I have enough info from you and the readers do also. I will answer the question you Lacy gave to Ed, however. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

Posted by Ed Edwards
The 'pillories of heaven' are never mentioned in the Bible. Heaven just doesn't contain any whipping posts

'Splain this verse to me, Ed.

Quote:
Luke 12:41-48 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Lacy

Ed, you are right—no pillaries in heaven. In regard to lacy’s challenge to you on Luke 12:41-48:

Faustites are “notorius” for using material from the parables. But Lacy Evans goof here is to put this all in the wrong time frame. Note that it is the good pleasure of the father to give the “flock’ the kingdom 12:32. That is the N.T. saints and us.


Note that Lacy’s proof text occurs AFTER the wedding (12:36), assuming that Lacy is premillennial and not split-rapture like Joey Faust was when he started out on this long journey downward. Note also that this flock’s treasure is already in heaven before the wedding (12:33,34). Notice that we are talking about the Lord’s second coming (12:37) as a thief 12;37-40. we Christains do not have to worry about his coming as a thief (1 Thess. 5). Also, note that the disciples were asking as to who was being addressed in this PARABLE but got no answer (12:41). In retrospect, we can know who because of Paul's epistles, that is everyone but Faustites.


Lacy wants you to think that everyone that is a servant is saved, so that he can turn that straw man into believers getting whipped with STRIPES at the JSOC. That whipping consists of being being killed and thrown into hell fire per faustites.

The parable is for Jews in the tribulation after the coming and wedding before the battle. Israel and Israelites are God’s servants whether saved or not. Even old Nebbie was God’s servant or anyone else that were tools to fulfill or accomplish God’s plan.

Lev 25:55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Even old Nebbie was God’s servant or anyone else that fulfilled or accomplished God’s plan.

The portion that these unbelieving Jews get is the same as the other unbelievers that have gone before them. – Herb Evans

Jer 25:9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.


That is it, Ed. I am finished with this heresy as i promised in my last post. You take them from here. -- Herb Evans

 

[Lacy Evans]

Faustites are “notorius” for using material from the parables. But Lacy Evans goof here is to put this all in the wrong time frame. Note that it is the good pleasure of the father to give the “flock’ the kingdom 12:32. That is the N.T. saints and us.

faustite schmoustite. The time frame is clear to anyone not prone to wriggling when the warnings get a little "hot". Of course it is His good pleasure to give us the Kingdom, but you tell me how a person leaps from that to everybody in the flock gets it automatically. One verse doesn't cancel out a dozen that say we get it by suffering and we miss it if we are unfaithful.

Note that Lacy’s proof text occurs AFTER the wedding (12:36), assuming that Lacy is premillennial and not split-rapture like Joey Faust was when he started out on this long journey downward. Note also that this flock’s treasure is already in heaven before the wedding (12:33,34). Notice that we are talking about the Lord’s second coming (12:37) as a thief 12;37-40. we Christains do not have to worry about his coming as a thief (1 Thess. 5).

I was "split-rapture" when "split-rapture" wasn't cool. That also is a totally unrelated subject. Perhaps another thread.

Also, note that the disciples were asking as to who was being addressed in this PARABLE but got no answer (12:41). In retrospect, we can know who because of Paul's epistles, that is everyone but Faustites.

The parable IS their answer. You can't hide behind a clear teaching and cry parable!
Eze 20:49
Then said I, Ah Lord God! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

Lacy wants you to think that everyone that is a servant is saved, so that he can turn that straw man into believers getting whipped with STRIPES at the JSOC. .

Herb (I suppose) wants you to believe that there are two gospels. One of free grace based upon the finished work of Christ for those of us who live in the church age and another one where you get saved by not beating your fellow-servants and not getting drunk for those who live during the trib. What a frightening heresy!:tongue3:

That whipping consists of being being killed and thrown into hell fire per faustites

Did your daddy let you pick your own punishment? I never liked getting whippings, and the more evil the infraction, the more severe the rod.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The parable is for Jews in the tribulation after the coming and wedding before the battle. Israel and Israelites are God’s servants whether saved or not. Even old Nebbie was God’s servant or anyone else that were tools to fulfill or accomplish God’s plan.

Poor Jews in the trib! This is a enigmatic idea that leaves you with much more trouble than it solves. Does a tribulation jew get saved by works? You have got to be kidding me! That's just hyperdispensationalist mumbo-jumbo. Two ways to get saved? You are starting to scare me. This is a Baptist board right?

The portion that these unbelieving Jews get is the same as the other unbelievers that have gone before them. – Herb Evans

There is nothing about "belief" in the warning or even in the parable! The whole discussion is about works. It is stated in the text that the audience is already-believing, saved disciples.

That is it, Ed. I am finished with this heresy as i promised in my last post. You take them from here. -- Herb Evans

If I may quote from "Tombstone"

"Well . . . .bye."

You have left your debate in good hands. Ed can rock-n-roll with the best of them.

Hey Ed, do you believe that Tribulation Jews get saved by works?

lacy

 

[Herb Evans]

Ed Squared, by the way as I depart from this thread; don't allow any amatuer trifler to misrepresent me by telling you that I believe in works for salvation or grace plus works for salvation in the tribulation. Folks will have to go to Pensacola for that doctrine. -- Herb Evans

 

[Lacy Evans]

Ed Squared, by the way as I depart from this thread; don't allow any amatuer trifler to misrepresent me by telling you that I believe in works for salvation or grace plus works for salvation in the tribulation. Folks will have to go to Pensacola for that doctrine. -- Herb Evans

Ok Herb and ole Pete are not the same person. (I've never seen the two together!)

Herb said:

The parable is for Jews in the tribulation after the coming and wedding before the battle. Israel and Israelites are God’s servants whether saved or not.

What pray-tell did he mean, reckon?

lacy

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Squared, by the way as I depart from this thread; don't allow any amatuer trifler to misrepresent me by telling you that I believe in works for salvation or grace plus works for salvation in the tribulation. Folks will have to go to Pensacola for that doctrine. -- Herb Evans

No problem Brother Herb Evans.
However, I will probably let PROFESSIONAL triflers to so
misrepresent you

Yes, I've been to Pensocola.
(ed takes a 6-minute gigglin' for Jesus break)
I've also been to Toronto.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Lacy Evans: //You have left your debate in good
hands. Ed can rock-n-roll with the best of them. //

Thank you for the kind words, Brother Lacy Evans.
Yep, I do believe in ROCK-N-ROLL. I have faith
in the ROCK: Messiah Jesus, & I'm on the ROLL
of those selected for heaven.

Or were we talking about the other Ed?
Say, did he get over the surgery on the
body part that goes from the throat to the
stomach (wouldn't easier if I could spell?)?

Lacy Evans: //Hey Ed, do you believe that Tribulation Jews get saved by works?//

Tribulation Jews (millions of them) get saved when
they Believe that God raised Messiah Jesus from the
dead and confess Jesus as Messiah (Lord).
Tribulation Jews thus saved will do good works.

 

[AresMan]

Ed Squared, by the way as I depart from this thread; don't allow any amatuer trifler to misrepresent me by telling you that I believe in works for salvation or grace plus works for salvation in the tribulation. Folks will have to go to Pensacola for that doctrine. -- Herb Evans

I assume you are talking about Ruckman and not PCC.

 

[James_Newman]

Wow! The blasephemy continues! I won't dignify that sinful talk with an answer. You can't find a lot of things at the JSOC and I hell fire, but you propagate them anyway to those who fall for them. So now, we have it on record that Christians do not get a new body. I thought bad Christians missing heaven when they die was bad enough. That is it, I have enough info from you and the readers do also. I will answer the question you Lacy gave to Ed, however. -- Herb Evans

Whatever, Herb. Lord willing, I'll still be here preaching the truth if you decide you need some more info.