The Army's hard sell

[Hardsheller]

Joseph and Alanspal,

Since you're both from Arkansas perhaps you could enlist to serve your country on the Buddy Plan.

Just a thought.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I am serving my country already. But thanks for the offer.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RockRambler]

Don't know that its really a Christian message to make war using other peoples' children either.

Amazing how many are willing to be drafted and serve, when they know the possibility of them being drafted is over.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
I have never read such unpatriotic crap as is being posted on this Politics Forum. One would think we have a bunch of Michael Moore clones posting here.

It does seem that way at times but, thankfully, I don't believe they represent the typical American. They certainly don't reflect the thinking of the typical American warrior!

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
...and of course its always questionable when you have outsourced your military work to foreigners I would say a high percentage are committed but are they as committed if it were 100% United States soldiers.

Your comments, ASLANSPAL, amaze me! Our military has always had persons who weren't yet citizens serving in its ranks and they've, overall, been excellent troops. Some may indeed have hopes of gaining citizenship - which in itself isn't a bad thing - but most are just plain grateful to the United States for a better life and are willing to lay theirs on the line. I find this to be true among Vietnamese Americans - whom I know very well - and Mexican Americans in my corner of the world. It was true of Japanese Americans during World War II despite the problems they endured. I'm certain it's been true of every nationality.

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by RockRambler:
Many times a man's passion to wage war increases as his passion to make love decreases.

(Or substitute "play golf" for "wage war")

Many men who understand the price of freedom because they've been there still support doing what has to be done despite the awfulness of it all. They're also wise enough to realize that the burden can now be better carried by those younger than them - and they expect of them - just as was the case with their fathers and grandfathers. You can also be assured that, if it came to it - and God help us if it does, they'd still pick up and join the fight.

I still have the passion to make love - with my wife - as well, by the way! I never have carried for playing golf.

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by RockRambler:
Don't know that its really a Christian message to make war using other peoples' children either.

Amazing how many are willing to be drafted and serve, when they know the possibility of them being drafted is over.

There's nothing un Christian about expecting our fellow citizens to meet the call for duty whether as volunteers the way it is now or as draftees as its been in times past. Calling for service - demanding it - is something every member of the local draft board had to do in times past. There's no way to defend this nation without calling upon someone's son, daughter, father, mother, brother, or sister. None are more precious than any other to those who love them and all are very precious to our nation. Enjoying the benefits of freedom carry with it a duty to defend it. That burden has never been - and never will be - distributed with complete equality. Such an ideal would choke our ability to respond. Such a reality should leave us forever grateful to those who do take up the call to serve.

Patrick

 

[RockRambler]

But Dragoon, I would bet that your passion to send others to war is no greater now than when you served. As I have stated time and time again, we're in Iraq, let's finish the job.

The chickenhawks who have never served in or had something better to do in their younger days, do seem to be the ones who are more than willing to send others to war...and to serve if drafted, now that they are past drafting age.

(P.S.....I never found the passion for golf either, guess its because of my father always saying a man's attention turned to golf once his attention to women waned...lol)

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by RockRambler:
But Dragoon, I would bet that your passion to send others to war is no greater now than when you served. As I have stated time and time again, we're in Iraq, let's finish the job.

Yes, I admit, you're correct about that!

The chickenhawks who have never served in or had something better to do in their younger days, do seem to be the ones who are more than willing to send others to war...and to serve if drafted, now that they are past drafting age.

Understood, and I do think there are many who really do avoid the call - any call - at all costs and that's a shame!

(P.S.....I never found the passion for golf either, guess its because of my father always saying a man's attention turned to golf once his attention to women waned...lol)

I hope never to take an interest in golf! LOL!

Patrick

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Beleive it or not and this is personal as I am
going to get. I have contacted my Senator and
I am up their in age..but I think we should have
a national service and it should incorporate all
ages. Joe is a vocal proponent on fighting and he
is still young.."HE SHOULD FIND A WAY" others have and people like me are trying.

Hardsheller you are spot on we should all go
to war and be united in this war on terrorism.
Bush imho took his eye off the ball and wasted
a lot of time...Osama Bin Laden should have been
dead and buried by now.

We should have an American face on it 100% in
our military and bless those who we have outsourced these duties too but it is not right.


Someone mentioned the Georgia state flag..They flew the Mexican flag a national flag ,by all means I am going to question that big time..it really is my tax dollars and it is my right..period. Comrades in arms should fly the
flag of their country or state but not another
nations flag.imho

I am more and more in agreement from the
Christians of agape press.

did anyone see this little blurb in Agape Press

A military expert and Pentagon advisor says the United States should look at Germany if it wants to find a way to solve the long-term military recruiting problem. While President Bush and most Pentagon officials want to avoid a draft, retired Army Lt. Colonel Bob Maginnis says unless the pace of the war on terror decreases, conscription might be America's best recourse. He notes, "I have a half-brother who lives in Germany who, when he was 18, after his high school, had to provide mandatory public service -- either the military or he could go into social service. It was still the same 18-month obligation. He helped invalids in his community, and it was an organized program." While his brother chose the social service option, Maginnis points out that the Germans "fill their army with conscripts who would rather go into the army." The military advisor says unless the current pace of the war decreases, the U.S. might have to reinstate the draft, and he feels the German option would be fair to everyone. [Chad Groening]


I would amend the above proposal and increase
age range for those of us older but have a fire
burning to be apart.


1. bottom line I will question those who fly another nations flag while working for me...period.

2. I will try even harder to get rules and laws
change so more and more people of age can serve.

3. Those of age right now! really can find a way
especially if you are a strong vocal proponent.

4. If the draft does come back like the Agape press is suggesting it should incorporate more
of us who want to support and serve.

sincerely
Aslanspal

Godbless you England and may Godbless the United
States of America.

 

[KenH]

One problem I have with a draft is that I fear it would make it easier to engage in foreign adventurism, maybe even engaging in multiple wars simultaneously. I would think that those opposed to the Iraq War would be concerned about this as well.

 

[TexasSky]

I have a million problems with a draft - most of them buried in the fields of Vietnam.

We tell our young people that they are too young to rent cars or hotel rooms at 18, that they are not responsible enough to be allowed to choose alcohol or not - but we expect to take them from their homes, shove a gun in their hands and make decisions that will live with them the rest of their life?

No human being should ever be FORCED to take another human beings life. The draft forces that upon far too many young people.

A draft is too random - it has no idea what dreams it is destroying in a young person, it has no idea the maturity level of the young person, and no matter what the military claims about taking boys and making men, it takes more than 6 weeks in a boot camp to mature a human being.

IF they want to draft someone - let them draft those of us old enough to have said, "I lived my life." Let the young people alone.

 

[KenH]

I am opposed to the draft primarily on the philosophical grounds. Being almost 50 years old has not changed my opposition to a draft.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

That is part of the reason I believe Bush has not used it. It is something that he rightly recognizes should only be used as a last resort. However, if it got down to the nitty gritty and I am called upon to take up arms and fight, off I will go to war, while I am sure the majority of "patriotic" anti-war liberals will be off to Canada to run like cowards.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

www.mothersagainstthedraft.org

 

[ASLANSPAL]

I am about 50/50 now since I would like to see
something that would reach my age group and allow
me to serve perhaps it would not be called a draft
but a volunteer force for older Americans.

My salient point is that this came from Agape press "The Christian news" and it has breached
the subject of the draft or service. So its this
subject imho has now been breached even by
christians.

 

[carpro]

The strongest opponents of the draft are very likely our military leadership.

I, too, am against the draft. But not categorically. If it becomes necessary in the War on Terror, then let's do it. This is a fight to the finish.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Carpro,

I agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

I am a johnny-come-lately to this debate but the draft will have to be used if we have to go into Syria and Iran, and so far I see no way out from that.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I would seriously think about re-enlisting. Even at 44. You all know how I hates to brag, but I have kept myself in pretty good shape, and know I could make it thru any obstacle course. Plus, I have more electronics experience now. If we go to either Syria and/or Iran, I'm going to inquire. I would rather have some old tough guys like myself in the service, than a bunch of mamby-pamby whining liberal red diaper doper babies serving. That's what the draft would do.