• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Bible condemns OSAS doctrine.. yet some folks still believe it

Status
Not open for further replies.

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified



I have a question, although I have not read the entire thread yet. In John’s Gospel, Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" John 15:6. Now, if salvation cannot be lost, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain.

In my thinking Jesus told his disciples to remain in his love because just as we enter freely into a relationship with Christ, we are free to leave him.

True

John 15 "every branch IN ME " that does not bear fruit... cut off - cast into the fire

God gives no warnings at all against the impossible.

So no warning about "humans growing so tall that their heads stick up above the clouds" -- it is not a problem in reality
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
True

John 15 "every branch IN ME " that does not bear fruit... cut off - cast into the fire

God gives no warnings at all against the impossible.

So no warning about "humans growing so tall that their heads stick up above the clouds" -- it is not a problem in reality
Again, not a passage that addressing security of the saved in Christ!
Also, there is a valid rendering that states that the father lifts up any vine not producing fruit, and cuts it back and prunes it to have better fruit!
 

revmwc

Well-Known Member
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

These believers walked in gross sin yet were turned over to the oppressor for destruction of the flesh. But Paul made it clear the one turned over would suffer in physical life but the spirit of that saved person would be saved at the coming of Christ. OSAS backing up your scriptures.
 

John of Wood Green

New Member
Site Supporter
He says "So shall MY heavenly father do to you ... ". Note: not "your heavenly father". Christ isn't speaking only to those who are definitely saved by the power of God.
Once God has truly saved you, you are always saved. But there is at least one sin you will NEVER commit once you are truly saved - It's HIS power that sees to that, not yours.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

That is good advice...you should take it.


Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Your demon doctrine of "forgiveness revoked" still cannot deny that believers are made perfect forever in regards to remission of sins:


Hebrews 10:1
King James Version (KJV)

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



You need Christ, Bob.


God bless.
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You need Christ, Bob.


God bless.[/QUOTE]

Darrell, even though I have many doctrinal differences with Bob I don't question that he puts his faith and trust in Christ. A statement such as 'you need Christ' is suggesting that Bob is not a Christian. I know how hurtful that is because it has happened to me time and again on this board.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
True in almost every discussion on every topic when we look at the people "posting" --

But when you look at the people IM-ing and reading ... not so cut-and-dried in favor of the idea of "no such thing as objective unbiased Bible student"

So are you going to answer my question "How many have you converted on this board?"
 
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine
Two days early for an April Fools joke. Good grief. What heresy.
Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified


Two days early for an April Fools joke. Good grief. What heresy.

Apparently you are trying to make my point for me. A bit extreme -- but I will take it.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

So are you going to answer my question "How many have you converted on this board?"

Again I would ask - whose point are you making?
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified


That is good advice...you should take it.
Your demon doctrine... .

Post the Bible texts that cut across preferences ... see the responses you get?.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”


He says "So shall MY heavenly father do to you ... ". Note: not "your heavenly father".

Matt 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32
“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

John 1:12 to as many as received Him to them He gave the right to be called the Children of God.

Matthew 16:17
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

Christ isn't speaking only to those who are definitely saved by the power of God.

In the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18 - He only gives one reason for expecting someone to forgive others... and that is that they have already experienced it first hand from God.


, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’


Once God has truly saved you, you are always saved.

That is a good example of a statement we do not find Christ saying in Matthew 18 to make His point on this topic.

The OP says to look at the Bible details and accept them. Anyone can "quote themselves" or say "I choose to look at some other Bible text that does not make such pointed statements which but across my POV".

But is that really "sola scriptura testing"??
 
Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine
Not even going to give your point any interest. Your SDA doctrine sadly is very close to many who claim to be evangelicals. We could talk all night but the reality is you sadly (or purposefully ) don't understand verities like eternal life. You confuse it with forgiveness of sins as well as the gospel of the kingdom to Israel only and inheritance. My reply is extreme but one must do so to defend grace these days. Acts 15:1-11 come to mind.
Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified




Apparently you are trying to make my point for me. A bit extreme -- but I will take it.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
those few obscure passages that "seem" to teach otherwise must be examined and the possibility strongly considered that they are teaching something else altogether.

True -- and so here we have an example of the "weight of scripture"

Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Ezek 18
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die.
4. The soul that sins - it shall die

1 Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified from it.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Gal 5
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
..

Heb 2
1 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, 3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?
After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,

1 Cor 10
11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall......

----------------------------------------------------------------------- this small list given for this reason

To show briefly that this is not the case of "one or two texts that must be fixed to fit OSAS" - but there is the whole of scripture to be reckoned with on this subject as the apparent meaning clearly seen in the text is not at all in line with the ideas suggested in OSAS.
 
Last edited:

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Gal 5:4. That's you Bob.

Aside from the ad hominem and vitriol so near-and-dear to the hearts of a few on this board - what is your point about "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ" in that case? Is it really that this can only happen to someone who "differs from you"??

Is your point "yes OSAS is wrong it does fail - but just for those with acceptance of Bible texts that cut across my preferences"???

Do you not see how your self-indulgence in momentary ad hominem at that moment - is done at the expense of shooting your own argument in the foot?
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Post Bible texts...


Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

==========================

Get this response

Not even going to give your point any interest. Your SDA doctrine sadly is very close to many who claim to be evangelicals.

As if the Bible were written by SDAs - and texts that do not favor your preferences - must have been put there by your enemy.

That is the sort of fox-hole mentality-instead-of-sola-scriptura that gets to "shrinking evangelism" because the Word of God is powerful-- and opposing it with mere vitriol and ad hominem is "fluff". No substance in it.

============================================================

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

These believers walked in gross sin yet were turned over to the oppressor for destruction of the flesh. But Paul made it clear the one turned over would suffer in physical life but the spirit of that saved person would be saved at the coming of Christ. OSAS backing up your scriptures.

The idea of living like the devil all the way to heaven is one of the logical conclusions of OSAS that Calvinism fights against in its 3 and 5 point versions that insists on not turning a blind eye to the Romans 2:4-13 doctrine of "perseverance".

Your snip reference to 1 Cor 5 is actually not at all making your case because of 2 Corinthians 7 where we see that disfellowship from the body of Christ in 1 Cor 5 - had its intended effect - in that the one disciplined eventually responded with repentance, turning from open sin and rejoining the body of Christ
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
BobRyan said:
I believe that in Matthew 18 Christ teaches correct doctrine - when He teaches forgiveness revoked in response to determined rebellion against God.
Period.


Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Steaver said:
#235 steaver, Thursday at 5:56 PM
And that then means salvation is of YOURSELF. Period.
 
I would think Paul's warning of anathema for another gospel would scare you more. Salvation is by grace. Period. Received by faith. Grace. Free. No works. No conditions. I am direct and blunt with you since you corrupt the grace of God. Acts 15:11. Acts 16:31. Eph 2;8-9. It is all of grace or it is nothing. All of grace. As many as received Him. I would expect someone who preaches a gospel that cannot save to be upset by my direct words. Go read Acts 16:31 and rest in that. Or John 5:24 or 6:47.
Aside from the ad hominem and vitriol so near-and-dear to the hearts of a few on this board - what is your point about "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ" in that case? Is it really that this can only happen to someone who "differs from you"??

Is your point "yes OSAS is wrong it does fail - but just for those with acceptance of Bible texts that cut across my preferences"???

Do you not see how your self-indulgence in momentary ad hominem at that moment - is done at the expense of shooting your own argument in the foot?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top