The Danger of the Denial of the Pre-Trib Translation (Rapture) of the Church of Jesus Christ

[canadyjd]

Matthew 24 has absolutely nothing to do with the church of Jesus Christ and these words predate the church and is the OT scriptures where we are told it is a mystery hidden from this age (see Eph 3:1-6. It has book end temples in Mt 24:1 and Mt 24:15….

Matthew 24-26 is absolutely definitive in this discussion.

Jesus is answering a question concerning His 2nd coming. The language He uses includes a direct reference to the great tribulation and the rapture.

You are ignoring the Words of our Lord Jesus, through ignorance or willful disobedience to the truth, in order to cling to a false doctrine that was never taught in Church history until the 1800’s, and then embraced by heretics.

Think, man, think! It is dangerous for you to believe and teach a false doctrine developed by heretics.

Please, don’t be a false teacher.

Peace to you

 

[37818]

You have three lines here to present your reasoning, which is to declare that you do not believe in the translation of the church of Jesus Christ, which began on Pentecost as a separate entity with a special calling from Israel and the nations and you declare that I do not seem to know the truth simply because you refer to Re 20:6 without even thinking it is worthy of quoting.

???
Revelation 20:6, . . . Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. . . .

Romans 2:1, . . . Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. . . .

 

[JesusFan]

Matthew 24-26 is absolutely definitive in this discussion.

Jesus is answering a question concerning His 2nd coming. The language He uses includes a direct reference to the great tribulation and the rapture.

You are ignoring the Words of our Lord Jesus, through ignorance or willful disobedience to the truth, in order to cling to a false doctrine that was never taught in Church history until the 1800’s, and then embraced by heretics.

Think, man, think! It is dangerous for you to believe and teach a false doctrine developed by heretics.

Please, don’t be a false teacher.

Peace to you

Some seem to make this doctrine to be part of essential doctrines that must be believed, but all eschatology would be secondary, except for heretical views such as Dominion , Kingdom Now, Full blown Preterist latter day rain, sons of God manifested etc

 

[Dave G]

Matthew 24 has absolutely nothing to do with the church of Jesus Christ

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" ( Matthew 24:1-3 ).

My friend,
It has everything to do with the underlined, because that is what His disciples ( Jewish members of His church, the body of Christ ) asked Him to tell them about:

1) The sign of His coming.
2) The end of this present, man-controlled world.

That is what this thread is about, is it not?
His second coming, the end of the world and when He's going to gather His elect ( the "Rapture" )?
Again, His word tells us when that is going to happen.


There's no need to guess when we have what He told the disciples ( which is what we are, if we're saved ) right in front of us.

 

[Dave G]

This temple was destroyed in 70 AD

I agree.

Neither is the church of Jesus Christ in Judaea. The church of Jesus Christ is a gentile church founded on a Jewish foundation, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone.

JD,
God's word says that His church is composed of every saved individual out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9-10 ).
Both Jews and Gentiles .

What is there to think about?
I trust the Lord and what is written on the pages of His precious word.


That said, I'll make this my final post in this thread and encourage you to, once again, read the Scriptures in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 carefully;
Paying particular attention to what the Lord Jesus told His disciples about this very subject.

I wish you well.

 

[JD731]

Matthew 24-26 is absolutely definitive in this discussion.

Jesus is answering a question concerning His 2nd coming. The language He uses includes a direct reference to the great tribulation and the rapture.

You are ignoring the Words of our Lord Jesus, through ignorance or willful disobedience to the truth, in order to cling to a false doctrine that was never taught in Church history until the 1800’s, and then embraced by heretics.

Think, man, think! It is dangerous for you to believe and teach a false doctrine developed by heretics.

Please, don’t be a false teacher.

Peace to you

You have already dismissed the theme of the scripture that I proved, the day of the Lord judgement. I doubt that any of you guys have read a single prophecy and the context that I gave. The context of these passages will demonstrate that God is going to establish a kingdom on earth over which Jesus Christ will reign over all all nations on the operative principle of righteousness and he will do it through his own people, Israel. Matthew 24 is in the context of the kingdom and it is not in the context of the church of Jesus Christ.

For some context, Matthew 24 took place on the day we know now as Wednesday on the final week of the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth before he would be crucified on Friday. He had ridden into Jerusalem on a donkey on Sunday and presented himself as the King of Israel. Luke said this about the following days in that week;

Lu 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called [the mount] of Olives.

Jesus leaving the temple for the final time in the middle of the week is highly significant prophetically. He will not enter again into his temple until his second coming in glory after all his enemies are defeated and put away and Israel is saved nationally, every one of them. The two days (Thursday and Friday) represents the days that Jesus has departed Israel nationally and he is cut off, but not for himself, Israel is reckoned dead, meaning God is separated from them. (that is the meaning of death) and for those two days he will be out of the promised land and so will his nation Israel, being buried in the nations of the world and without a national identity. They are dispersed and reckoned by God as gentiles and time is not progressing for this dead nation. Jesus Christ will come back early on the third day and resurrect his nation from the dead and once again inhabit his temple. God, he said, dwell in the midst of his people.

Now, what does that mean is happening during the two days while Israel is dead? The answer to this question will introduce us to the "remnant" doctrine. There are two kinds of Israelites after Jesus Christ died and rose again from the dead. They are those many who do not believe his Messianic claims and second, the few who do believe in him. Those who believe in him are called the "remnant" according to the election of grace. (why? because grace is the operative principle of divine dealing with men during this entire age after Christ's death and resurrection) and those who do not believe in him during these two days (two thousand years) are called Israel, or Jacob. All through the scriptures from the very beginning God has taught us about the two natures of men by means of the first birth and the second birth. The second birth is always the one that puts one in relationship with God. Typical teaching of this has abounded through history. It is no different in this age as it pertains to Israel after the Spirit and Israel after the flesh. The Remnant is the spiritual Israel, but it is Israel nonetheless.

Now, listen up; there are four (4) major prophetic themes that make their way through the prophets of Israel and the New Testament scriptures. I have dealt with one of them already, the "Day of the Lord" theme. You simply must understand that. But you also must understand that there has been from the very first that a small group among the many among Israel that God was able to progress his doctrines and who had a real heart for him. I will not deal with it in the OT but will briefly deal with the doctrine now in the NT scriptures.

Read the apostle Paul as he explains this;

Rom 10:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The people God foreknew were not gentiles, they were Israel.

Here begins the explanation of the two Israel's' during this age.
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

He brings the OT theme into play for this age and tells us it is a continuing theme.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (the word also demonstrates that we are dealing with an established theme from another time)

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election (The Remnant) hath obtained it, and the rest (of Israel) were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness?

It is the diminishing, not the elimination of Israel.

I will pause now so you can consider these wonderful truths then we will continue.

 

[JD731]

???
Revelation 20:6, . . . Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. . . .

Romans 2:1, . . . Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. . . .

Refusing to rightly divide the word of truth is not becoming. The translation of the church of Jesus Christ is dealt with by Paul in the context of the "mysteries of God" must not be conflated with the return of Christ with the church when he establishes his kingdom rule over Israel and the nations on earth in fulfillment of many OT promises that are in no way mysteries, but promises that predates the church by thousands of years. These are two lines of prophecy that culminates in the kingdom of Jesus Christ over the earth for the final 1000 years, the final day of the week, the sabbath of God when all the earth is at rest.

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

The first resurrection is three resurrections in one resurrection. The firstfruits of the resurrection, the translation of the church, the resurrection of Israel fully saved .One in three and three in one. This is the ruling structure of God when this testing of men is over. That is just the way it is.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I will pause now so you can consider these wonderful truths then we will continue

.Well I have read through your post, and the subsequent one, and I remain unimpressed.
You are still left with Romans 10:11. 'For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."' Those whom God has joined together, let no man put asunder!
There has been a steady stream of Jews becoming Christians all through the present age, from the composer Felix Mendelsohn, to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli down to early '60s pop star Helen Shapiro. Helen Shapiro read the Bible and knew Jesus is the Jewish Messiah - Jewish Testimonies That there may be a revival among the Jews before the Return of Our Lord is entirely possible - I pray that there is - but it will be in exactly the same way as Gentiles are saved - by grace through faith - for the dividing wall has been broken down, and the two are now one (Eph. 2:14-15).

The people God foreknew were not gentiles, they were Israel.

I beg to differ. God foreknew all those whom He would save, as He made known to Abram in Genesis 12:3 and confirmed in Gal. 3:7, 26-29. You really need to get to grips with Galatians if you want to get a handle on the wonderful truths of God's word.

 

[37818]

Refusing to rightly divide the word of truth is not becoming. The translation of the church of Jesus Christ is dealt with by Paul in the context of the "mysteries of God" must not be conflated with the return of Christ with the church when he establishes his kingdom rule over Israel and the nations on earth in fulfillment of many OT promises that are in no way mysteries, but promises that predates the church by thousands of years. These are two lines of prophecy that culminates in the kingdom of Jesus Christ over the earth for the final 1000 years, the final day of the week, the sabbath of God when all the earth is at rest.

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

The first resurrection is three resurrections in one resurrection. The firstfruits of the resurrection, the translation of the church, the resurrection of Israel fully saved .One in three and three in one. This is the ruling structure of God when this testing of men is over. That is just the way it is.

You are not making sense here.

 

[JD731]

You are not making sense here.

Obviously, you think.

I know this will go over your head but let me at least try. God gave dominion of the earth to the first Adam and his bride with the intention it would be populated with the sons of men. Imagine that. God subjected Adam to a simple test from the adversary and he failed. The dominion of the earth was usurped by the devil. Still yet the earth was populated by Adam, his offspring being in a fallen state and Satan exercising authority over the earth through his kingdom. In this kingdom, Satan has set forth a number of principles for his rule, such as power and greed and lust and hate and death, and you name it and they conflicted with those of God albeit there were some on the earth that followed their God given consciousness of good and evil and for that reason honored their knowledge of God and practiced self control over these Satanic principles and believed God in the things revealed to them. In this way all men had the same choice to make as Adam their father. Would they obey God as their conscience dictated and be counted righteous by God?

This changed for Israel when God raised them up as a people and nation and gave them his law at Sinai. For gentiles and the nations it changed when God opened the door of faith to us in 40 AD after Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead and God was willing on our behalf to count the death and resurrection of Christ for all us who would believe in him.

But if God stopped there it would not cure the problem completely because the world rule and the principles of government were still Satan's You can see this in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 when Satan tried to get a trade off with Jesus Christ, the kingdoms of this world in exchange for his worship. That exchange was not made.

So, what is next? When the purpose of this age is complete, the purpose of which I have spoken often but few on this earth has a clue and will always deny, God will wrest the control of the earth, along with his ungodly principles, away from Satan by separating him from the world and killing his citizenship entirely. It is the only way. This gives way to restoring the earth to it's pristine model and the last Adam will then rule for God over a converted earth who are his. There will be no death among the initial citizenship and they will live on the earth for the full one thousand years. The divisions of this kingdom has been carefully revealed in the scriptures of the NT scriptures. Jesus has said that no one could enter into this kingdom who are not born again. However, being born again is a personal choice of faith in God and those who are born in the kingdom will need to be born again.

At the end of these days of the kingdom Satan will be loosed, from the prison he has been in since King Jesus took the throne, for a little season and will lead a massive army of unbelievers against Jesus Christ and the saints in Jerusalem. A short work will be made of this rebellion and then the end comes with Satan, sin, and death being completely destroyed in preparation for the eternal state.

Paul says in 2 Cor 13 that every man should examine himself to see if he is in the faith, lest he be reprobate.

 

[JD731]

.Well I have read through your post, and the subsequent one, and I remain unimpressed.
You are still left with Romans 10:11. 'For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."' Those whom God has joined together, let no man put asunder!
There has been a steady stream of Jews becoming Christians all through the present age, from the composer Felix Mendelsohn, to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli down to early '60s pop star Helen Shapiro. Helen Shapiro read the Bible and knew Jesus is the Jewish Messiah - Jewish Testimonies That there may be a revival among the Jews before the Return of Our Lord is entirely possible - I pray that there is - but it will be in exactly the same way as Gentiles are saved - by grace through faith - for the dividing wall has been broken down, and the two are now one (Eph. 2:14-15).

I beg to differ. God foreknew all those whom He would save, as He made known to Abram in Genesis 12:3 and confirmed in Gal. 3:7, 26-29. You really need to get to grips with Galatians if you want to get a handle on the wonderful truths of God's word.

I am sorry, Martin, but this is a made up doctrine. You had better try to get this one right.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I am sorry, Martin, but this is a made up doctrine. You had better try to get this one right.

That's a very facile answer, JD. I could say precisely the same thing to you.
The Scriptures are not as complicated as you have made them. They only become complicated when someone wants to impose his own doctrines upon them

 

[37818]

Obviously, you think.

I know this will go over your head but let me at least try. God gave dominion of the earth to the first Adam and his bride with the intention it would be populated with the sons of men. Imagine that. God subjected Adam to a simple test from the adversary and he failed. The dominion of the earth was usurped by the devil. Still yet the earth was populated by Adam, his offspring being in a fallen state and Satan exercising authority over the earth through his kingdom. In this kingdom, Satan has set forth a number of principles for his rule, such as power and greed and lust and hate and death, and you name it and they conflicted with those of God albeit there were some on the earth that followed their God given consciousness of good and evil and for that reason honored their knowledge of God and practiced self control over these Satanic principles and believed God in the things revealed to them. In this way all men had the same choice to make as Adam their father. Would they obey God as their conscience dictated and be counted righteous by God?

This changed for Israel when God raised them up as a people and nation and gave them his law at Sinai. For gentiles and the nations it changed when God opened the door of faith to us in 40 AD after Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead and God was willing on our behalf to count the death and resurrection of Christ for all us who would believe in him.

But if God stopped there it would not cure the problem completely because the world rule and the principles of government were still Satan's You can see this in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 when Satan tried to get a trade off with Jesus Christ, the kingdoms of this world in exchange for his worship. That exchange was not made.

So, what is next? When the purpose of this age is complete, the purpose of which I have spoken often but few on this earth has a clue and will always deny, God will wrest the control of the earth, along with his ungodly principles, away from Satan by separating him from the world and killing his citizenship entirely. It is the only way. This gives way to restoring the earth to it's pristine model and the last Adam will then rule for God over a converted earth who are his. There will be no death among the initial citizenship and they will live on the earth for the full one thousand years. The divisions of this kingdom has been carefully revealed in the scriptures of the NT scriptures. Jesus has said that no one could enter into this kingdom who are not born again. However, being born again is a personal choice of faith in God and those who are born in the kingdom will need to be born again.

At the end of these days of the kingdom Satan will be loosed, from the prison he has been in since King Jesus took the throne, for a little season and will lead a massive army of unbelievers against Jesus Christ and the saints in Jerusalem. A short work will be made of this rebellion and then the end comes with Satan, sin, and death being completely destroyed in preparation for the eternal state.

Paul says in 2 Cor 13 that every man should examine himself to see if he is in the faith, lest he be reprobate.

6 paragraphs?

And, . . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And what points are you explaining for what purpose?

Proverbs 17:26, He that hath knowledge spareth his words: . . .

 

[JD731]

6 paragraphs?

And, . . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And what points are you explaining for what purpose?

Proverbs 17:26, He that hath knowledge spareth his words: . . .

Thanks for asking because it gives an opportunity to bring up context once again.

The scriptures indeed say what you quoted, but they also say this;

Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

One cannot, must not, paint with a broad brush without context. When the scriptures says to "study to be quiet" it is not saying the same thing as, "do not preach the gospel."

In our conversation you are ignoring context, the context of the mystery that I have been attempting to point out to you. The coming for the church in the air by Jesus Christ is a mystery as we are plainly told in all the scriptures with this coming for the church as the context. The coming of Jesus Christ to the earth to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords is not a mystery. The OT prophets and the psalms are full of this doctrine and Israel knew much about it before there was a church.

You men are choosing to be stubborn and ignorant and you cannot be taught when you are in that mindset.

 

[JD731]

That's a very facile answer, JD. I could say precisely the same thing to you.
The Scriptures are not as complicated as you have made them. They only become complicated when someone wants to impose his own doctrines upon them

Indeed you could, but it would not be true.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree.

JD,
God's word says that His church is composed of every saved individual out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9-10 ).
Both Jews and Gentiles .

What is there to think about?
I trust the Lord and what is written on the pages of His precious word.


That said, I'll make this my final post in this thread and encourage you to, once again, read the Scriptures in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 carefully;
Paying particular attention to what the Lord Jesus told His disciples about this very subject.

I wish you well.

The first members of the Church of Christ, His body were pretty much all Jews though, as the big question was n ot could Jews receive Jesus as Lord, but was he even the Messiah to the Gentiles also?

 

[JesusFan]

Thanks for asking because it gives an opportunity to bring up context once again.

The scriptures indeed say what you quoted, but they also say this;

Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

One cannot, must not, paint with a broad brush without context. When the scriptures says to "study to be quiet" it is not saying the same thing as, "do not preach the gospel."

In our conversation you are ignoring context, the context of the mystery that I have been attempting to point out to you. The coming for the church in the air by Jesus Christ is a mystery as we are plainly told in all the scriptures with this coming for the church as the context. The coming of Jesus Christ to the earth to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords is not a mystery. The OT prophets and the psalms are full of this doctrine and Israel knew much about it before there was a church.

You men are choosing to be stubborn and ignorant and you cannot be taught when you are in that mindset.

Per Apostle paul, big mystery though was that Lord Jesus is messiah for both saved Jews and Gentiles

 

[JD731]

Per Apostle paul, big mystery though was that Lord Jesus is messiah for both saved Jews and Gentiles

I really don't know what you mean by that!

What is most important to you, arguing for your denominational position or learning the truth and adjusting your thinking to reflect your submission to it? So far I have given you scriptural proof for two (2) major prophetic themes in the scriptures that are detailed by multiple inspired authors and over a period of a thousand years and it has not been commented on or acknowledged by a a single one of you posters. This tells me you are more interested in advancing your denomination than the truth of what is being revealed in the scriptures.

Isa2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

Isaiah is a seer. He sees things.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain (kingdom) of the LORD's house (family) shall be established in the top of the mountains (kingdoms), and shall be exalted above the hills (small kingdoms); and all nations shall flow unto it. [not into it but unto it]

(the last days are what we know today as Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. There is a great change of how God does business on these days as opposed to the previous 4 days. What the seer is showing is that sometimes during these last days these things he sees will take place. One needs to take note of this truth when the seer says "it shall come to pass" that he is speaking of something specific in the last days.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The word of the LORD has been shown to us as being Jesus Christ title and his name is Adonai Jehovah in the OT (Lord GOD). (Ge 15)

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

We know this is after his coming to the earth in Re 19.

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Do you believe any of this or is it just empty words?

Now, there is nothing here about the church of Jesus Christ because it was hidden from the seers of the OT times. They did not see it and therefore they did not comment on it. See Note:

Now, before the above can take place the day of the LORD (V12) must first come with it's purifying judgement. I will not quote it here but you should read about it in the remainer of the chapter. But if you don't believe these words just say you don't believe them and I won't worry jou with them again.

NOTE:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[37818]

Thanks for asking because it gives an opportunity to bring up context once again.

The scriptures indeed say what you quoted, but they also say this;

Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

One cannot, must not, paint with a broad brush without context. When the scriptures says to "study to be quiet" it is not saying the same thing as, "do not preach the gospel."

In our conversation you are ignoring context, the context of the mystery that I have been attempting to point out to you. The coming for the church in the air by Jesus Christ is a mystery as we are plainly told in all the scriptures with this coming for the church as the context. The coming of Jesus Christ to the earth to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords is not a mystery. The OT prophets and the psalms are full of this doctrine and Israel knew much about it before there was a church.

You men are choosing to be stubborn and ignorant and you cannot be taught when you are in that mindset.

In other words you cited no Holy Scripture about the tribulation prior to the rapture.

 

[JesusFan]

I really don't know what you mean by that!

What is most important to you, arguing for your denominational position or learning the truth and adjusting your thinking to reflect your submission to it? So far I have given you scriptural proof for two (2) major prophetic themes in the scriptures that are detailed by multiple inspired authors and over a period of a thousand years and it has not been commented on or acknowledged by a a single one of you posters. This tells me you are more interested in advancing your denomination than the truth of what is being revealed in the scriptures.

Isa2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

Isaiah is a seer. He sees things.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain (kingdom) of the LORD's house (family) shall be established in the top of the mountains (kingdoms), and shall be exalted above the hills (small kingdoms); and all nations shall flow unto it. [not into it but unto it]

(the last days are what we know today as Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. There is a great change of how God does business on these days as opposed to the previous 4 days. What the seer is showing is that sometimes during these last days these things he sees will take place. One needs to take note of this truth when the seer says "it shall come to pass" that he is speaking of something specific in the last days.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The word of the LORD has been shown to us as being Jesus Christ title and his name is Adonai Jehovah in the OT (Lord GOD). (Ge 15)

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

We know this is after his coming to the earth in Re 19.

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Do you believe any of this or is it just empty words?

Now, there is nothing here about the church of Jesus Christ because it was hidden from the seers of the OT times. They did not see it and therefore they did not comment on it. See Note:

Now, before the above can take place the day of the LORD (V12) must first come with it's purifying judgement. I will not quote it here but you should read about it in the remainer of the chapter. But if you don't believe these words just say you don't believe them and I won't worry jou with them again.

NOTE:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

All of the passages used to support the rapture would seem to be indicating though was same event as the actually second coming