-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Dead In Christ Shall Rise First – 1 Thessalonians 4:16
- Thread starter Dan Edwin
- Start date
Amy.G said:Sounds like he thinks he's one of the trinity.
This was his response to your question about who "we" is.
I smell a rat.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death. (1 John 3:14)
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. (Psalms 139:23-24)
==================================================
(I pray) for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me (John 17:20b-21).
Jesus Christ prayed all who believe would be one, dwelling in God the Father (our earthen body) with the Spirit of the Son of God and the Holy Spirit of God our Father.
.......he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me (Matthew 10:40b).
When we receive the Spirit of the Son, we receive the Holy Spirit of the Father also, because the Father and the Son are one.
===================================================
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 John 4:15)
God abides (dwells) in us, and we abide (dwell) in God. The Spirit of God abides in our body with us, and we abide in God, Whose "hand" is our body.
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God (Colossians 3:3).
Christ is our life and we dwell in our earthen body, which is the "hand" of God our Father.
He (God) is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, (Acts 17:27b-28a)
We live in God, Who is our earthen body.
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there (Psalms 139:7-8).
"I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU." (Hebrews 13:5b)
God will never forsake us, because He is always with us, where ever we go.
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15).
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen. (Romans 16:25-27)
This is the mystery that began to be revealed by the Old Testament prophets.
Be not afraid, God our Father, Who loves us, is making us in His own image by conforming us to the image of His Son our Lord Jesus Christ.
"Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops (Matthew 10:27).
Take care, trust the Lord, and God bless,.........with love in Christ
Amy.G said:
The Father, the Son, and us (we) are one, and if you are one of us, then we are members of one another.
For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another (Romans 12:4-5).
This testimony of what truly happened might make it more clear. While a student at a Bible college in the year 1985, I was preparing for the day one morning, when the following Bible verses came to mind: “With God all things are possible”, and “Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it.” Based on these verses, I prayed asking God to save every man, woman, and child He ever did or would create. Then because of what began to happen, I now believe God our Father is doing just that, saving all; for in Christ, all shall be made alive. Later that day I sat down to read my Bible while listening to the Moody Bible radio station. Then all of a sudden, music and singing began coming through the hi-fi that was “not from this world!” It sounded like 10,000 angels, all singing together on many different levels. I was astounded and asked myself, “What is that?” “Where is that coming from?” It was not from this world! The music was far more beautiful than anything I had ever heard before, or have ever heard since. It was much more beautiful than anything man could create on earth. Then I not only believed there was a Heaven, I knew there was a Heaven!! I sat back and listened in awe to the beautiful sounds, music far more beautiful than can be described with words.
As I was yet “catching my breath”, I opened my Bible, which seemed to “fall open” to 2 Peter 3:8-9, which says, the Lord is not slack concerning His promise (If you ask anything in my name, I will do it), but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Then, it was as if the Holy Ghost (spirits of the holy angels, saints) began flowing into and through my body, one after another, as if in waves. I was elated each time one passed through. This continued for about twelve hours as they passed through my body.
Since that event in 1985, God has revealed the meaning of prophecy and spiritual truths from the Bible as taught in the early church. These include: (1) where we are in time and why we are here today, (2) how believers in Jesus Christ are born again and saved from death, (3) how we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ and translated into the Kingdom of God, (4) how we are “changed” to put in immortality and “perfection”, (5) why homosexuals are hindered from entering into the Kingdom of God, (6) truths to end division by denominations, and (7) insight on prophecy from the books of Daniel and Revelation.
When Christ returns: Many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another (Matthew 24:10). You shall be betrayed also by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends. And they will cause some of you to be put to death. You shall be hated by all for My name's sake (Luke 21:16-17). And a brother will betray a brother to death, and a father his son. And children will rise up against their parents and will cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name's sake, but he enduring to the end, that one will be kept safe (Mark 13:12-13).
Some of the things we have presented fulfill this prophecy, because it is hard to receive something other than what we have grown to believe is truth, and because some of the things presented in years past were not understood.
God bless
Marcia
Active Member
Dan Edwin said:
Dan, I cannot take what you say seriously because you are basing it on a very strange experience and because of what you say here about the "spirits of the holy angels and saints" flowing into you. It also sounds like you equate them with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is God, the 3rd Person of the Trinity. Also, "spirits of angels" doesn't make sense because angels are spirits, and angels or the spirits of saints cannot pass through your body. I'm afraid this is actually an evil experience and will not take you toward the truth of God's word. I say this out of concern.
Marcia said:
Do you believe there was a Pentecost? Do you believe your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost? Do you believe angels ascend and descend? My experience was a glorious experience! The "sons/daughters" of God are the Holy Ghost.
I am a son of God, perhaps the son of God of this dispensation. I was anointed (baptized) by the Holy Spirit of God our Father in the year 1992. One day in the year 1986?, I thought about people burning in hell, and because the word of God stands forever, I thought if they yet heard the truth, we could still get them out of there. Based upon this, I got down on my knees and prayed, (not recalling my exact words), "Father, we can't just leave them there, if they only understood we can still get them out of there, somebody has got to tell them. We made a vow to the Lord saying I would go to hell to get them out, and then asked, "just don't leave me there forever", and began to weep.
Perhaps this ties in with my making a vow to the Lord in prayer, saying, "Lord, if I could have gone to the cross for You, I would have". This prayer was made after my body received five bleeding wounds around my heart. Perhaps it has something to do with, "I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus" (Galatians 6:17b). I don't understand all things either, I only know I was cut off from the Holy Ghost in the year 1996? when things began to get "hot", because of the things we began to share. This was so others would not be damned for blaspheming the Holy Ghost.
I am one with God our Father, Who holds each of us in the "palm" of His hand (and helps with these writings); And one with His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. We are "us". There are and have been many other holy "sons/daughters of God" on earth that understand these things, but perhaps because I offered to go back to get others out is the reason why God allowed us to reveal these things. And it might be, that even though these things are revealed, God will not allow them to be received because of unbelief. We've made a fair effort to explain these things, but even so, there is next to no positive feedback. Perhaps those who read these things are still assimillating or discerning whether they are truth or not. We are "shouting", IT HAS BEEN TIME FOR THE "DEAD IN CHRIST TO ARISE"!!, TO STAND UP TOGETHER AS ONE BODY AND RESTORE THIS WORLD AS PART OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD. As mentioned before, prophecy stating, the kingdoms of this world will not become the Kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ, unless the members bring this to pass by working together with God our Father and one another.
We have been shouting ("broadcasting" by internet and word of mouth) for the "dead in Christ" to rise for the last eighteen years, but the "beast" began to jump on us as soon as we began to share understanding contrary to "traditional darkened understanding".
Take it for what it's worth.
Take care, let's trust the LORD, and may God bless.
Hold onto your hats, people, but I'm siding with Pastor Larry and DHK on this one! I smell not just a rat but a troll....
We did. It's worth nothing. It is contrary to the revealed word of God and is therefore false teaching to be turned from with haste and repentance.
The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First - I Thessalonians 4:
This passage makes my heart jump with joy as I know it probably does many others, my parents just passed away in the past two years, each a year apart, they were both saved. I know if I am alive when He calls us home, they will be caught up in the air, then I will be changed from this corruptible body and take on an uncorruptible one, meeting my loved ones in the air on our way up to see Him. I believe that we will see our loved dead ones in Christ even before we see Him, isn't that just like Him? To always give us happiness?
YSIC
Joyce
This passage makes my heart jump with joy as I know it probably does many others, my parents just passed away in the past two years, each a year apart, they were both saved. I know if I am alive when He calls us home, they will be caught up in the air, then I will be changed from this corruptible body and take on an uncorruptible one, meeting my loved ones in the air on our way up to see Him. I believe that we will see our loved dead ones in Christ even before we see Him, isn't that just like Him? To always give us happiness?
YSIC
Joyce
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
I would not, brethren, haue you ignorant concerning them which are a sleepe, that ye sorow not euen as other which haue no hope. 14 For if we beleeue that Iesus is dead, and is risen, euen so them which sleepe in Iesus, will God bring with him.
15 For this say we vnto you by the worde of the Lord, that we which liue, and are remayning in the comming of the Lord, shall not preuent them which sleepe.
16 For the Lord himselfe shall descende from heauen with a shoute, and with the voyce of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then shall we which liue and remaine, be caught vp with them also in the clouds, to meete the Lord in the ayre: and so shall we euer be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore, comfort your selues one another with these wordes.
The subject of the paragraph is 'them which sleep in Jesus' (v13)
this is contrasted with those that 'live and remain' (V17).
Using the common meaning of the words and the way they are used the subject is about the physically dead who are saved.
I can't see how we can use v.18 as a comfort those who have physically lost their saved family and friend - I can't see it if it is talking about the spiritually 'dead'. The passage is talking about the physically dead.
Here is my writing on understanding both Thessalonians:
-----------------------
The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):
But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.
But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul -- he didn't endure
to the end."
Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (LATIN: raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words[/u.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.
I've underlined a command to comfort each
other with these things. I personally don't see how
we can comfort each other with 'Jesus is going to
come get us at the end of the Tribulation period'.
So I use 'Jesus is going to come get us at the end of
the age which is before the Tribulation Period starts.
Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):
1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,
I underlined "our gathering together to Him,
we ask you" in verse 1 and
the falling away comes first.
The second is the only mention of the first
in the rest of the chapter.
The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
Antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.
While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,
There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.
1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invasion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Millinnial Kingdom period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.
But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.
-------------------------------
This understanding of the Bible just doesn't NOT work if
I would not, brethren, haue you ignorant concerning them which are a sleepe, that ye sorow not euen as other which haue no hope. 14 For if we beleeue that Iesus is dead, and is risen, euen so them which sleepe in Iesus, will God bring with him.
15 For this say we vnto you by the worde of the Lord, that we which liue, and are remayning in the comming of the Lord, shall not preuent them which sleepe.
16 For the Lord himselfe shall descende from heauen with a shoute, and with the voyce of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then shall we which liue and remaine, be caught vp with them also in the clouds, to meete the Lord in the ayre: and so shall we euer be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore, comfort your selues one another with these wordes.
The subject of the paragraph is 'them which sleep in Jesus' (v13)
this is contrasted with those that 'live and remain' (V17).
Using the common meaning of the words and the way they are used the subject is about the physically dead who are saved.
I can't see how we can use v.18 as a comfort those who have physically lost their saved family and friend - I can't see it if it is talking about the spiritually 'dead'. The passage is talking about the physically dead.
Here is my writing on understanding both Thessalonians:
-----------------------
The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):
But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.
But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul -- he didn't endure
to the end."
Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (LATIN: raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words[/u.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.
I've underlined a command to comfort each
other with these things. I personally don't see how
we can comfort each other with 'Jesus is going to
come get us at the end of the Tribulation period'.
So I use 'Jesus is going to come get us at the end of
the age which is before the Tribulation Period starts.
Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):
1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,
I underlined "our gathering together to Him,
we ask you" in verse 1 and
the falling away comes first.
The second is the only mention of the first
in the rest of the chapter.
The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
Antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.
While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,
There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.
1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invasion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Millinnial Kingdom period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.
But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.
-------------------------------
This understanding of the Bible just doesn't NOT work if
Last edited by a moderator:
The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First
Hey guys, I know I'm the new one on the block here; but, that scripture Matthew
14:13 where it talks about "enduring to the end" that is not something those who are living in the dispensation of Grace need to concern themselves over in the first place, that belongs in the Tribulation period. When the church is raptured that ends the dispensation of Grace. That is why we must not hesitate to witness to everyone out there. Those during the tribulation will have to "endure to the end" and that won't be easy will it?
Also, what is this about the Sons and Daughters of God being the Holy Ghost? If I recollect rightly, in the NT when Jesus appeared to the disciples; He spoke of the one that would come and comfort them, He was talking about the HS. The triune Godhead is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Three in one. Same as man is body, soul and Spirit. Man's body is the housing for the real you, the soul, and if a person is saved he is filled with the Holy Spirit, and this is what should govern how a man walks. Just like that the Godhead has different things they do. I actually think that would make an interesting study, as the Bible does let us know what the HS does, what God the Father does and what God the Son does. God the Father sits on the Great White Throne in Heaven and will judge the unsaved one day. God the Son will judge the saved, either by rewards or absence of them at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The Holy Spirit is what guides us, if we allow Him to. Man also has a false notion that they must clean themselves up before they come to Him. Not so, we come just as we are, and then ask Him to clean up the mess we are, that's the only way the mess gets clean. We have to allow the Holy Spirit to work in us.
One thing to think about, in the OT remember when the Jews had to get circumcised, blood was spilt to do this. Now; in the NT, Jesus spilt His blood, which I believe is quite different than ours also; but, will not discuss that right now. When we come to Him and accept Him, the Holy Spirit comes to live in each and every believer, at that moment, the Holy Spirit performs an operation referred to in the NT as the "circumcision without hands". This is the cutting away of the flesh from the soul. Notice in the OT when a person touched a dead thing, they had to wash and stay outside the camp? That is because, they did not have this circumcision without hands, so when the body touched something dirty it dirtied the soul also. Not so now right? Just thoughts I'd like to share with you all.
YSIC
Joyce
Hey guys, I know I'm the new one on the block here; but, that scripture Matthew
14:13 where it talks about "enduring to the end" that is not something those who are living in the dispensation of Grace need to concern themselves over in the first place, that belongs in the Tribulation period. When the church is raptured that ends the dispensation of Grace. That is why we must not hesitate to witness to everyone out there. Those during the tribulation will have to "endure to the end" and that won't be easy will it?
Also, what is this about the Sons and Daughters of God being the Holy Ghost? If I recollect rightly, in the NT when Jesus appeared to the disciples; He spoke of the one that would come and comfort them, He was talking about the HS. The triune Godhead is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Three in one. Same as man is body, soul and Spirit. Man's body is the housing for the real you, the soul, and if a person is saved he is filled with the Holy Spirit, and this is what should govern how a man walks. Just like that the Godhead has different things they do. I actually think that would make an interesting study, as the Bible does let us know what the HS does, what God the Father does and what God the Son does. God the Father sits on the Great White Throne in Heaven and will judge the unsaved one day. God the Son will judge the saved, either by rewards or absence of them at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The Holy Spirit is what guides us, if we allow Him to. Man also has a false notion that they must clean themselves up before they come to Him. Not so, we come just as we are, and then ask Him to clean up the mess we are, that's the only way the mess gets clean. We have to allow the Holy Spirit to work in us.
One thing to think about, in the OT remember when the Jews had to get circumcised, blood was spilt to do this. Now; in the NT, Jesus spilt His blood, which I believe is quite different than ours also; but, will not discuss that right now. When we come to Him and accept Him, the Holy Spirit comes to live in each and every believer, at that moment, the Holy Spirit performs an operation referred to in the NT as the "circumcision without hands". This is the cutting away of the flesh from the soul. Notice in the OT when a person touched a dead thing, they had to wash and stay outside the camp? That is because, they did not have this circumcision without hands, so when the body touched something dirty it dirtied the soul also. Not so now right? Just thoughts I'd like to share with you all.
YSIC
Joyce
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
My Bible(s) say "We died with him":
2 Tim 2:11 (NIV = New International Version):
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (ESV = English Standard Version)
The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
This saying is trustworthy: For if we have died with Him, we will also live with Him;
'We' are the saved, the redeemed, the born-again, the children of God, the Believers (in Christ), the followers of the True Messiah, the Bride of Messiah, the Body of Messiah, the Sons (& Daughters) of Light, the followers of The Way, The Baptized into the death of the Lord, etc. etc. & etc.
In fact, 'baptized' is displaying by water that 'we' have died with the Lord, we are being cleaned by the Lord , and someday in the near future we will be raised (resurrected) to share Glory with the Lord.
Bold changes made ...
2 Tim 2:11 (NIV = New International Version):
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (ESV = English Standard Version)
The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
This saying is trustworthy: For if we have died with Him, we will also live with Him;
'We' are the saved, the redeemed, the born-again, the children of God, the Believers (in Christ), the followers of the True Messiah, the Bride of Messiah, the Body of Messiah, the Sons (& Daughters) of Light, the followers of The Way, The Baptized into the death of the Lord, etc. etc. & etc.
In fact, 'baptized' is displaying by water that 'we' have died with the Lord, we are being cleaned by the Lord , and someday in the near future we will be raised (resurrected) to share Glory with the Lord.
Bold changes made ...
Last edited by a moderator:
Ed Edwards said:
GE:
Just change your emphasis a bit, and see the big difference!
2 Tim 2:11 (NIV = New International Version):
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (ESV = English Standard Version)
The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2 Tim 2:11 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
This saying is trustworthy: For if we have died with Him, we will also live with Him;
'We' are the... baptized into the death of the Lord
Each time it is Christ's 'baptism' of HIS death and resurrection and we with Him and in Him and through Him - it has 100% ZERO to do with any 'baptism' of ours! Paul illustrates the new birth - our spiritual regeneration - our coming to faith by grace; our "First Resurrection" without which no one shall enter in into the Kingdom of 'heaven' the KIngdom of God and Christ, now in this 'life', and before the last day of the resurrection of ALL men, either to "the resurrection of LIFE", or, to the "resurrection of damnation".
ONE LAST DAY, ONE RESURRECTION, ONE RETURN OF CHRIST, ONE JUDGMENT, ONE ETERNITY TO FOLLOW of either lost or saved. Nobody is for ever going to lift both feet from this earth.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ed: // In fact, 'baptized' is displaying by water that 'we' have died with the Lord, we are being cleaned by the Lord , and someday in the near future we will be raised (resurrected) to share Glory with the Lord. //
'Displaying' means to show.
Our physical baptism shows what Messiah Jesus has done for us; our physical baptism is NOT what Messiah Jesus has done for us.
As a picture of me is NOT ME; so a water baptism is NOT what Jesus did for me.
'Displaying' means to show.
Our physical baptism shows what Messiah Jesus has done for us; our physical baptism is NOT what Messiah Jesus has done for us.
As a picture of me is NOT ME; so a water baptism is NOT what Jesus did for me.