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The first Pope was a married Priest
- Thread starter rockytopva
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One wife as the guy only married one time.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Our Blessed Lord was celibate, as was St. Paul, both of whom encouraged it.
Does your church have celibate pastors?
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife."
I think "blameless" covers divorce. "One wife" rules out polygamy (which was more an issue then than now, now that it's been long illegal).
Does Paul mean a bishop must have a wife? By what principle? And, what of Paul being pointedly single?
Does Paul mean that a bishop shouldn't be remarried? What if his first wife died?
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Being the "husband of one wife" does not mean one must be married. Rather, the Apostle is stating that those clergy who are married MUST BE THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, i.e., they cannot be divorced and remarried, which is adultery.
Trying to make this instruction mean marriage itself is a requirement for the clerical state is self-refuting, since St. Paul was celibate, as was Timothy. The Apostle would be contradicting his own teaching, as well as instructing Timothy to violate the teaching as well.
unless I missed it - where does the Bible say that Paul or Timothy was celibate?
(NOTE: Walpole - I will keep asking until you answer)
Walpole
Well-Known Member
NOTE: Celibate = unmarried
RE: St. Paul: "Now I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with sexual desire.“ (1 Cor 7:8-9)
RE: St. Timothy: We know from history (Polycrates), tradition as well as being found implicitly in the Scripture. "Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity." (1 Tim 4:12). Men of youth did not marry in Jewish antiquity. Furthermore, there is no tradition in the history of Christianity where the ordained then get married. Rather, any married clergy in antiquity were already married prior to receiving ordination. The youthful Timothy, like the man who ordained him (St. Paul), was celibate.
A slight correction, one can be celibate AND married. I believe the Apostles, even the married ones left their families for the Lord.
I have problems in that a man can be divorced and not guilty of any wrongdoing.
Secondly, Polygamy is very widespread. Not only is it all over out west because of Mormonism, and they have taken it into Mexico on a widespread basis, but also Islam allows it and Islam is very widespread. No one has ever found a good way to totally stamp out polygamy in the United States.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but you are incorrectly conflating celibacy with continence. In antiquity, celibacy always meant a state of being unmarried.
---> Celibacy
---> Continence
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Divorce is not the issue. Rather, it is being divorced and then remarrying. In the Gospels, our Blessed Lord is explicit that this is adultery.
Very true.
What is wrong with remarrying after divorce since Jesus said that Moses granted divorce for adultery?
Why? Abandoning one's family is as sinful as anything else. In those days, few women were employed & there was no welfare. If a man abandoned his family, they often sold themselves as slaves.
And being married & celibate except for medical or other legitimatre reasons is just-as wrong also. Remember, GOD, not men, said that when a man marries, his body is no longer entirely his own, but is also his wife's, and hers is his also.
Jesus upbraided some Pharisees who didn't help their destitute parents. So, your statement really needs some qualification.
Just saying things trying to justify the RCC's WRONG celibacy for clergy "discipline" is not a very wise course.
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...Unless the reason for the divorce was adultery by one's spouse.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage explicitly in all four Gospels.
"He said to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” - Matthew 19:8-9
"And he said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.'” - Mark 10:11-12
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." - Luke 16:18
"...for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true.” - John 4:18
Here is St. Paul affirming as well...
" For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress." - Romans 7:2-3
"A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord." - 1 Cor 7:39
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but that is not a loophole. Otherwise, that means Christ would be condoning committing adultery in order to get out of one's marriage. He would be in essence saying if you want out of a marriage, simply commit adultery.
Let me know if you want the true meaning of that passage.
The Catholic. Church DOES NOT forbid marriage. If a person wants to marry and be a priest they can enter in one of the Catholic rites where priests marry. Many THOUSANDS of married Catholic priest. You just want to perpetuate a lie. You have been corrected countless times on this so you are bearing false witness.
Roman Catholic church could allow married men to become priests
Even just a little bit of research will show you that right now there are priests serving in the RCC who are forbidden to marry.
Even just a little bit of research will show you that right now there are priests serving in the RCC who are forbidden to marry.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
The Church already has married men who are priests. Roughly 20% of the world's priests are married. The discipline of celibacy is only in the Latin Rite and even within it there are married priests (we have one in my own diocese).
You are conflating forbidding with an impediment. The Church does not forbid anyone from marriage. In fact the Church is the only defender of the sanctify of marriage, and teaches that marriage is a Sacrament. However, the Church does recognize there are impediments, which means one is not capable of entering into marriage. In the Latin rite of the Church, a few examples of impediments to marriage are:
- A person is already married
- Age
- A person has made a religious vow
- A person has received holy orders
- Consanguinity
- A person is physically unable to consummate the marriage
This does not mean the Church forbids people from marrying. Rather, an impediment means a person is not free to enter into marriage. Whether you will admit it or not, your church too recognizes impediments. For example, if you asked your pastor to marry you and your daughter, would he / she be obliged to perform it? Or, if you are already married and you want to marry your girlfriend, would your pastor perform that marriage? If not, does that mean your church is forbidding you from being married?
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