The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

God places all people in power. Can you show me where he does not? I will show you why I think it is so.

Isa 40: 6The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

7The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

 

All about the nation of Israel, God's chosen people. Brought about by obeidance and disobeidance.

Can you show me where God raised up Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Saddam. According to your theory, elections or democracy means nothing. Is that right? Bush's struggle to have democracy in Iraq is wrong then for he is trying to do God's work isn't he?

James; Do you think God had a hand in Bhutto's death, for she almost for sure would of became the leader of Pakistan?? Do you believe that God just didn't want her as leader of Pakistan??

James; Do you believe that God had President Kennedy killed because God didn't want him as leader of US?

Please don't get offended at my questions for you told me to ask. I just don't believe God picks the leaders of the nations now and only picked them in OT, for Israel's sake.

BBob,

 

Not so Bob.

That says alot Bob.

As it turns out Bob, God is in control of all things. right?

 

God allows a lot also James, seems He allows more than he controls when it comes to man.
That is what God meant when He said that there is no power but His.

Rom 13:1¶Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Here He speaks of who is ordained of Him.

Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

He is talking about the creation of man James. Even Israel did not have a King here on earth until they cried unto God to give them a King and God gave them Saul.

Do you think God did this also.

1Sa 8:8According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

All about Israel James. You never answered the questions I ask you. I know they are tough questions but if God chooses all the leaders, even unto today, then there must of been a reason for Bhutto dieing.

Do you believe in democracy James where the people have the will by majority.
BBob,

 

No theory Bob, tis the Bible...no?

Bush?

Nope...all things play right into the plan of God, even if it is wrong.

Notice this please.

Who sent Joseph to Egypt? Did his brothers not sell him as a slave? They made the choice..right? No one forced them...did they?

well....yes they sinned and will stand before God for their action in that sin, but God also know it would happen, and God used the sins of the brothers to bring about His plan. His plan was to have Joseph in Egypt.

So you see...both are true.

 

I agree wholeheartly James when it comes to Israel. In this country we elect by the majority. Is that bibical James that the majority is right, or Godly?

God has all power and if it serves His purpose to have someone as a leader of a nation, He does it. I will agree with that much James.
BBob,

 

Bob,

The church is Gods people too. They are the real Israel. God does not change. What you see Him do in the OT, you will also see him do today.

As it turns out I believe the best type of government that man can run is a republic as is our own nation. But let it be known this is but a product of man. I belong to a kingdom, and Christ is my King. No democracy is in a kingdom.

 

Yes, but we were discussing the world. God intermingled with them in the OT, more of a "hands on" than now. We are under the New Covenant and God uses His Spirit of indwelling in us of which they did not have it indwelling in them.

BBob,

 

You are not being particularly generous in the "credit" you "give" to God. The drawing to Holy Spirit is a specific work in relationship to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Holy Spirit is "drawing" people through Jesus Christ. You have combined general revelation (which scripture tells us saved no one because all rejected it) with the specific revelation of Jesus Christ.

So, you believe something in you made the difference in salvation, and I believe God makes the difference in salvation. I believe God is sovereign, and you believe man is sovereign. We understand each other, and I couldn't disagree with you more.

peace to youraying:

 

How is it, then, that God "causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."?(Rom. 8:28). "All means all", right? Seems God may be a little more active in the affairs of men than you think.

peace to youraying:

 

Glad to see you believe all means all. Now you are talking. Not often you see a Calvinist say that! I said when it served God's purpose He could do what ever He wants, after all, He is God.

One question if I may, did God have Bhutto killed so she did not become the head of Pakistan???

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

BBob,

 

Bob,

Not you nor I knows why God does what He does in all cases. For us to guess would be meaningless. Sometimes, as time passes we then begin to understand Gods plan.

God was full aware of all that went on doing the killing. He know of the planning and the very day it happened, He know it would happen. God had the power to stop it, but He did not. Why? I don't know why. Did God give the shooter the gun? Maybe. I don't know that either. All I can tell you for sure is God know it would happen, and God did not stop it, because for some reason He allowed it to take place as part of His plan. We may never know why.

If you have a child and you do not feed the child, but you have all the power in you to feed the child, and you have all the food needed to feed the child, but you do not feed the child and you know by not feeding the child that the child will die and because you choose on your own not to feed the child and you and your food is the only hope to save the child, but still you choose not to feed the child....and then the child dies........

Would your local government change you?

 

All does mean all. But all of what? The bible tells us.

BTW...I and ALL Calvinist believe these verses, and we have gone over these 100s of times.

 

Projection/Justification

Sadly today we often see man blaming God and even Satan for the evil in the world. All too often the root is the flesh of man, yet we pretend there is a force, either of God's will, or that of Satan, being served.

Are we not as yet still bound in our grave clothes?

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

I agree Frogman......:thumbs: