The use of Nekros in Ephesians 2:1

[MennoSota]

Zero analogy, You made the analogy by saying "A dead man cannot reach for a life preserver."(You compared spiritually dead and physically dead) Paul is talking reality. You are not.

When did I say a dead man cannot reach for a life preserver?

Although, please show us how a dead man can reach for a life preserver. That would be a cool feat.

How do the spiritually dead animate their spirits?

Ephesians 2:4-5 tell us how it happens. I just wonder if you have something else that cancels out Ephesians 2:4-5.

 

[JonShaff]

When did I say a dead man cannot reach for a life preserver?

Although, please show us how a dead man can reach for a life preserver?

How do the spiritually dead animate their spirits?

Ephesians 2:4-5 tell us how it happens. I just wonder if you have something else that cancels out Ephesians 2:4-5.

My apologies...you said "Dead men cannot hear" thus making an analogy where Paul is not making analogy.

John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

Explain your "phrase" bibically:

Although, please show us how a dead man can reach for a life preserver?

How do the spiritually dead animate their spirits?

 

[MennoSota]

I think you misunderstand my objection.

My objection is not that we were dead in our sins and trespass, objects of God's wrath. It was the idea that the spiritual dead cannot do such and such because corpses (physical corpses) cannot do such and such.

What can the spiritually dead do? Please share the Bible passages showing what the dead spirit does.

My objection is not that we are alive in Christ (as the passage states) but that we must be made alive so that we can be saved (so that we can be in Christ), which is foreign to the passage.

How do you make your own spirit alive, apart from God? How does a dead spirit choose God so that God can then make the dead spirit alive?

You see, the passage tells us that God makes our spirit alive. God chooses to extend grace. It's all God in the passage. You and your dead spirit do absolutely nothing. Nothing...until you are made alive and given grace. Then and then alone do you respond to God. Your works come afterward. That's the message of the passage.

 

[JonShaff]

I need to see some Scriptures where "spiritually dead" is characterized as "Cannot respond to God".

Ephesians 2:4-5 tell us how it happens. I just wonder if you have something else that cancels out Ephesians 2:4-5.

Ephesians 1:13-14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[MennoSota]

My apologies...you said "Dead men cannot hear" thus making an analogy where Paul is not making analogy.

John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

Explain your "phrase" bibically:

Although, please show us how a dead man can reach for a life preserver?

How do the spiritually dead animate their spirits?

Show us how a spiritually dead person hears God before God makes them spiritually alive. Do you have a verse or two?

 

[Yeshua1]

I need to see some Scriptures where "spiritually dead" is characterized as "Cannot respond to God".


Ephesians 1:13-14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I need to see some Scriptures where "spiritually dead" is characterized as "Cannot respond to God".


Ephesians 1:13-14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I need to see some Scriptures where "spiritually dead" is characterized as "Cannot respond to God".


Ephesians 1:13-14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sinners left to their own device cannot understand the things that are spiritual in nature....

 

[JonShaff]

Show us how a spiritually dead person hears God before God makes them spiritually alive. Do you have a verse or two?

Numbers 22
12 And God said to Balaam, “You shall not go with them; you shall not curse the people, for they are blessed.”

20 And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men come to call you, rise and go with them; but only the word which I speak to you—that you shall do.”

 

[JonShaff]

Sinners left to their own device cannot understand the things that are spiritual in nature....

So a spiritually dead person does not know murder is bad?

 

[JonShaff]

How does a dead spirit choose God so that God can then make the dead spirit alive?

.

What verses do you have in mind?

 

[MennoSota]

Numbers 22
12 And God said to Balaam, “You shall not go with them; you shall not curse the people, for they are blessed.”

20 And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men come to call you, rise and go with them; but only the word which I speak to you—that you shall do.”

Did God speak to Balaam's dead spirit or to Balaam's physical being? Just wondering?

 

[JonShaff]

Did God speak to Balaam's dead spirit or to Balaam's physical being? Just wondering?

He discerned the will of the Lord and Did it. You tell me. Now we are splitting hairs.

 

[JonShaff]

The Gospel is Life giving Words...it enables the Spiritually dead rebel, doesn't it?

That is Grace Working Outside the sinner and Inside his heart...

2 Corinthians 4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[JonC]

What can the spiritually dead do? Please share the Bible passages showing what the dead spirit does.


How do you make your own spirit alive, apart from God? How does a dead spirit choose God so that God can then make the dead spirit alive?

You see, the passage tells us that God makes our spirit alive. God chooses to extend grace. It's all God in the passage. You and your dead spirit do absolutely nothing. Nothing...until you are made alive and given grace. Then and then alone do you respond to God. Your works come afterward. That's the message of the passage.

Scripture tells us that the spiritually dead can do quite a bit. They do evil deeds, they reject the Light, they walk in darkness, they consider the gospel message and determine it is foolishness, etc. I would look up those verses....but it is better to teach a man to fish.

We do not make ourselves "spiritually alive". I'm not sure where you even got that notion. God draws men to Himself. Again, my point was not that salvation is a work of man but that the use of a physical corpse to describe the attributes of being spiritually dead is both foolish and unbiblical. It is derived from distilling Scripture down to a few fragmented doctrines and then building theology upon those fragments. Scripture defines spiritual death for us, and as far as I know God did not ask our advise on a better way to put it. We are dead if we are not in Christ and we are alive in Christ. There is no point where Scripture says that we are made spiritually alive so that we can be saved (spiritual life is synonymous with being "in Christ, or being saved.

It is not that a spiritually dead man cannot hear because corpses cannot hear (hearing is an analogy as we don't have literal spiritual ears with little spirit ear drums that communicate to our tiny spiritual brains). What you are doing is building upon analogy. Just drop the analogy and discuss spiritual death.

 

[MennoSota]

He discerned the will of the Lord and Did it. You tell me. Now we are splitting hairs.

I'm not spitting hairs at all. Judas heard God speak for 3 years and did what he asked. Was Judas spirit alive or dead in its trespasses and sins?

 

[MennoSota]

The Gospel is Life giving Words...it enables the Spiritually dead rebel, doesn't it?

That is Grace Working Outside the sinner and Inside his heart...

2 Corinthians 4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither of these passages show a dead spirit living and making a spiritual decision.

It does show God working, which is nice.

God and God alone.

 

[JonShaff]

I'm not spitting hairs at all. Judas heard God speak for 3 years and did what he asked. Was Judas spirit alive or dead in its trespasses and sins?

Aren't you proving my point? You are the one putting boundaries on what the dead spirit can or cannot do. I'm letting the Scriptures speak for themselves.

 

[JonShaff]

Scripture tells us that the spiritually dead can do quite a bit. They do evil deeds, they reject the Light, they walk in darkness, they consider the gospel message and determine it is foolishness, etc. I would look up those verses....but it is better to teach a man to fish.

We do not make ourselves "spiritually alive". I'm not sure where you even got that notion. God draws men to Himself. Again, my point was not that salvation is a work of man but that the use of a physical corpse to describe the attributes of being spiritually dead is both foolish and unbiblical. It is derived from distilling Scripture down to a few fragmented doctrines and then building theology upon those fragments. Scripture defines spiritual death for us, and as far as I know God did not ask our advise on a better way to put it. We are dead if we are not in Christ and we are alive in Christ. There is no point where Scripture says that we are made spiritually alive so that we can be saved (spiritual life is synonymous with being "in Christ, or being saved.

It is not that a spiritually dead man cannot hear because corpses cannot hear (hearing is an analogy as we don't have literal spiritual ears with little spirit ear drums that communicate to our tiny spiritual brains). What you are doing is building upon analogy. Just drop the analogy and discuss spiritual death.

Perfectly said!!!!!! Thank you!

 

[Revmitchell]

There is no point where Scripture says that we are made spiritually alive so that we can be saved (spiritual life is synonymous with being "in Christ, or being saved.

Bingo!

 

[MennoSota]

Aren't you proving my point? You are the one putting boundaries on what the dead spirit can or cannot do. I'm letting the Scriptures speak for themselves.

What can a dead spirit do? Provide verses please.
Nothing in the passage about Balaam provides information about a dead spirit making choices.

 

[JonShaff]

What can a dead spirit do? Provide verses please.
Nothing in the passage about Balaam provides information about a dead spirit making choices.

He listened and obeyed God, did he not?