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The Vain Fool, Child of Pride, Son of Folly Who Replies Against God's Sovereignty

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Guido

Active Member
KenH said:
You are using vain, human reasoning. If I said I cooked a steak on the grill, would you say "You didn't say you didn't cook a chicken breast on the grill", now would you? It would be foolish to say such a thing.

There is no verse in the Bible that says that anyone for whom Christ paid their sin debt will end up in hell. That is a false doctrine. Anyone who believes such a false doctrine, such a lie as that is in serious, serious trouble spiritually.
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But if you later said that, then the hearer would be foolish if he denied that you said that.
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
But if you later said that, then the hearer would be foolish if he denied that you said that.
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The Bible NEVER, EVER says that Christ died for the goats. Christ ONLY died for the sheep. Period.

You believe that there will be people in hell for whom Christ paid their sin debt. You don't understand how wrong that is. I was that way, too, until God gave me eyes to see and ears to hear His gospel and saved me.
 
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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
KenH said:
There is no verse in the Bible that says that anyone for whom Christ paid their sin debt will end up in hell. That is a false doctrine. Anyone who believes such a false doctrine, such a lie as that is in serious, serious trouble spiritually.
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Not using those words.
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."
And,
Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to thisondemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
Not using those words.
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."
And,
Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to thisondemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
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What's your point? Are you assuming that 'swift destruction' and 'this condemnation' automatically only means eternal damnation to hell? Is eternal torment the only way God punishes?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
What's your point? Are you assuming that 'swift destruction' and 'this condemnation' automatically only means eternal damnation to hell? Is eternal torment the only way God punishes?
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So not all those who bring ". . . damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, . . ." are actually lost?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
KenH said:
You didn't ask about the doctrine of election. Are you changing your question?
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Well according to your calvinism Christ died only for the elect so that is not a change in the question. But the verses you have posted do not support your view BF. You continue to inject your philosophy into the text of the bible.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
KenH said:
Yes, it does. Christ said so Himself.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

If you have any doubt about who the "sheep" are, they are those who are saved. Christ died for His sheep, those who are saved, not lost.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
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Who are the sheep, those who hear the gospel and believe the gospel and are saved. But that still does not support your errant view that He only died for the sheep. The bible says He died for all but for some reason you do not believe this.
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Well according to your calvinism Christ died only for the elect so that is not a change in the question. But the verses you have posted do not support your view BF. You continue to inject your philosophy into the text of the bible.
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What is "BF"?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
KenH said:
Do you believe that Christ paid for a person's sin debt and then that person pays for them as well?
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I believe that there are wages of sin. I don't believe in a "sin debt".

I'm asking why you equate Christ as the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world (without exception) to Universalism.
 
G

Guido

Active Member
As others have stated, God creating people who are evil then rejecting the majority and forcing salvation on others, if it were true, would mean that God is not good.
 
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Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I believe that there are wages of sin. I don't believe in a "sin debt".

I'm asking why you equate Christ as the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world (without exception) to Universalism.
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You need to have, "a sin debt",
in order to be Saved.
 
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