Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As I said before you are trusting in some man rather than the bible.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Vain Fool, Child of Pride, Son of Folly Who Replies Against God's Sovereignty
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
- Status
As I said before you are trusting in some man rather than the bible.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Was the Calvin or Gill or perhaps Pink. Your idea is not found in the bible unless you read it into the text.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Bad fingers should have said Ken H.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Can you say something that is, "God-Honoring"?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men," John 2:24.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
These verses do not leave you any wiggle room
1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
Notice that it is ALL MEN that He is the saviour of because all can be saved. Then notice He adds those that believe, why because they have actually trusted in Him for their salvation while those of the all that did not trust were lost.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Just because I point out your error you seem to get upset. That fact I do point out your error is God honoring because I am confronting error.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is your answer. Proof texting out of context verses. That is calvimism 101.
Cite just one passage where 'lost' means 'hell-bound'.
Yep, you're one I had in mind when I made the post.
"Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, why doth He still find fault?" - Aaron
KenH
Well-Known Member
Thus, we have no basis for a fruitful discussion as we do not believe the same thing about the atonement.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Daniel 4:35 and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 55:8-11 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
"Does this make God a tyrant? If the word simply means, "an absolute ruler," then of course God is a tyrant. And since he is the sole moral authority, the very fact that he is a tyrant means that he ought to be one, that it is good and just for him to be one. The negative connotations of the word apply only to human beings, since no man is worthy of absolute authority or capable to wield it. But God is "an absolute ruler" – that is what it means to be God." - Vincent Cheung, Systematic Theology
KenH
Well-Known Member
Why would you want "free will" in the first place and have to rely on yourself instead of trusting in God?
KenH
Well-Known Member
John 1:13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(emphasis mine)
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
For therefore we both labour,.... Not in the word and doctrine, though they did;
nor in the exercise of internal godliness, though there is a work in faith, and a labour in love;
nor with their own hands, at their trades and business, to support themselves, and others;
but by enduring hardships and afflictions, as stripes, imprisonment, weariness, pain, watchings, fastings, hunger, thirst, cold, and nakedness; see 2 Corinthians 11:23.
And suffer reproach; with patience and cheerfulness. The Alexandrian copy, and another manuscript, read, "we strive";
or contend even to an agony, combating with sin, Satan, and the world, with profane men, and with false teachers;
and to all this they were animated by the promises made to godliness;
and therefore they showed it by their practices, or rather by their sufferings, that they believed it to be a true and faithful saying; and which is further conferred by what follows:
because we trust in the living God; for the accomplishment of the said promises, who has power, and therefore can, and is faithful, and therefore will, make good what he has promised;
and since it is life he has promised, faith is the more encouraged to trust in him, since he is the living God, in opposition to, and distinction from, lifeless idols;
he has life in himself, essentially, originally, and independently, and is the author and giver of life, natural, spiritual, and eternal, unto others.
Wherefore there is good reason to trust in him for the fulfilling of the promises of the present and future life, made unto godliness.
Who is the Saviour of all men; in a providential way, giving them being and breath, upholding them in their beings, preserving their lives, and indulging them with the blessings and mercies of life;
for that he is the Saviour of all men, with a spiritual and everlasting salvation, is not true in fact.
Specially of those that believe; whom though he saves with an eternal salvation; yet not of this,
but of a temporal salvation, are the words to be understood: or as there is a general providence, which attends all mankind, there is a special one which relates to the elect of God; these are regarded in Providence, and are particularly saved and preserved before conversion, in order to be called; and after conversion, after they are brought to believe in Christ, they are preserved from many enemies, and are delivered out of many afflictions and temptations; and are the peculiar care and darlings of providence, being to God as the apple of his eye: and there is a great deal of reason to believe this, for if he is the Saviour of all men, then much more of them who are of more worth, value, and esteem with him, than all the world beside; and if they are saved by him with the greater salvation, then much more with the less; and if he the common Saviour of all men, and especially of saints, whom he saves both ways, then there is great reason to trust in him for the fulfilment of the promises of life, temporal and eternal, made to godliness, and godly persons. This epithet of God
seems to be taken out of Psalm 17:7
where he is called ,
"the Saviour of them that trust", or believe.
1 Timothy 4 Gill's Exposition
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
For therefore we both labour,.... Not in the word and doctrine, though they did;
nor in the exercise of internal godliness, though there is a work in faith, and a labour in love;
nor with their own hands, at their trades and business, to support themselves, and others;
but by enduring hardships and afflictions, as stripes, imprisonment, weariness, pain, watchings, fastings, hunger, thirst, cold, and nakedness; see 2 Corinthians 11:23.
And suffer reproach; with patience and cheerfulness. The Alexandrian copy, and another manuscript, read, "we strive";
or contend even to an agony, combating with sin, Satan, and the world, with profane men, and with false teachers;
and to all this they were animated by the promises made to godliness;
and therefore they showed it by their practices, or rather by their sufferings, that they believed it to be a true and faithful saying; and which is further conferred by what follows:
because we trust in the living God; for the accomplishment of the said promises, who has power, and therefore can, and is faithful, and therefore will, make good what he has promised;
and since it is life he has promised, faith is the more encouraged to trust in him, since he is the living God, in opposition to, and distinction from, lifeless idols;
he has life in himself, essentially, originally, and independently, and is the author and giver of life, natural, spiritual, and eternal, unto others.
Wherefore there is good reason to trust in him for the fulfilling of the promises of the present and future life, made unto godliness.
Who is the Saviour of all men; in a providential way, giving them being and breath, upholding them in their beings, preserving their lives, and indulging them with the blessings and mercies of life;
for that he is the Saviour of all men, with a spiritual and everlasting salvation, is not true in fact.
Specially of those that believe; whom though he saves with an eternal salvation; yet not of this,
but of a temporal salvation, are the words to be understood: or as there is a general providence, which attends all mankind, there is a special one which relates to the elect of God; these are regarded in Providence, and are particularly saved and preserved before conversion, in order to be called; and after conversion, after they are brought to believe in Christ, they are preserved from many enemies, and are delivered out of many afflictions and temptations; and are the peculiar care and darlings of providence, being to God as the apple of his eye: and there is a great deal of reason to believe this, for if he is the Saviour of all men, then much more of them who are of more worth, value, and esteem with him, than all the world beside; and if they are saved by him with the greater salvation, then much more with the less; and if he the common Saviour of all men, and especially of saints, whom he saves both ways, then there is great reason to trust in him for the fulfilment of the promises of life, temporal and eternal, made to godliness, and godly persons. This epithet of God
seems to be taken out of Psalm 17:7
where he is called ,
"the Saviour of them that trust", or believe.
1 Timothy 4 Gill's Exposition
KenH
Well-Known Member
Apparently, "free willers" don't believe that the God of the Bible is powerful enough to do what He ordains to be for His glory nor sovereign enough to save a single one of His creatures. Apparently, the "free willers" believe that the God of the Bible is a beggar and is down on His knees begging His creatures, "Please, please let Me save you."
One of this number of "free willers" even raised the curtain a bit and admitted this: ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956].
The book of Jeremiah shows God pleading with Israel to repent before delivering them up.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Otherwise, this would be the result:
Psalm 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
The whole lot of us human beings, in our natural selves, deserve nothing more than to be wiped out immediately. We have no standing at all in ourselves.
- Status