The word wine does not mean alcoholic always.

[evangelist6589]

You know, the big smiley indicate a jest.

So you were not insulting me?

 

[HankD]

I bet Kenneth Gentry is smarter than Mohler on this issue and he wrote a book called God Gave Wine

My Italian grandmother once told me "God makes wine, man makes whiskey".

HankD

 

[Rob_BW]

So you were not insulting me?

Nope, and if we ever meet in real life, the first Mike's is on me.

 

[evangelist6589]

Nope, and if we ever meet in real life, the first Mike's is on me.

I love Mikes lemonade!

 

[StefanM]

I love Mikes lemonade!

You're kind of famous for that on the BB!

I'll admit that it tastes nice, but the sugar content is too high for me.

 

[evangelist6589]

You're kind of famous for that on the BB!

I'll admit that it tastes nice, but the sugar content is too high for me.

I have a sweet tooth

 

[evangelist6589]

My Italian grandmother once told me "God makes wine, man makes whiskey".

HankD

Any beverage that causes fast drunkenness is to be avoided. Mikes lemonades do not cause fast drunkenness. I usually drink 1 or so when I feel like it to avoid falling into sin.

 

[annsni]

So you were not insulting me?

Ummm- He wasn't even addressing you.

 

[TCassidy]

Just pour yourself a glass of wine, it'll take the edge off.

LOL! Good answer. Except I don't drink.

 

[TCassidy]

Jesus turned the water into wine, but the word wine, when you find it, especially in the New Testament, does not mean, what we probably think it means.

He is right, but not in the way you legalistically assume.

Wine in the New Testament was mixed with water for two reasons. 1) To kill the microbes in the water making it safe to drink. 2) To dilute the wine to the extent that it would not result in being drunk.

Most wine was served mixed with water at about 4 or 5 parts water for 1 part wine.

When unmixed wine was drunk it was called "strong drink."

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

 

[The Biblicist]

He is right, but not in the way you legalistically assume.

Wine in the New Testament was mixed with water for two reasons. 1) To kill the microbes in the water making it safe to drink. 2) To dilute the wine to the extent that it would not result in being drunk.

Most wine was served mixed with water at about 4 or 5 parts water for 1 part wine.

I believe the Mishnah states that wine in the passover feast was three parts water and one part wine.

 

[John of Japan]

He is right, but not in the way you legalistically assume.

Wine in the New Testament was mixed with water for two reasons. 1) To kill the microbes in the water making it safe to drink. 2) To dilute the wine to the extent that it would not result in being drunk.

Most wine was served mixed with water at about 4 or 5 parts water for 1 part wine.

When unmixed wine was drunk it was called "strong drink."

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

The Holman Christian Standard has "beer" instead of "strong drink." Still pondering that one.

 

[John of Japan]

Jordan the Bible does not support your rigid and legalistic views. Your KJV only ism, your anti alcohol views and the like. Paul encouraged Timothy to take a little wine for the sake of his stomach, Jesus turned water into wine, Isa 55 speaks positively of wine and there are so many more passages in the Bible that speak positively of wine. You will never see them because you are blinded to your legalistic brand of fundamentalism.

I'm sick of the non-fundamentalist attack on us of "legalistic" and "legalism." Jordan is not at all being legalistic. You can disagree with him without being nasty.

What exactly is legalism? It is NOT simply having standards. It is when you believe those standards make you holy. Jordan has no said that to my knowledge.

 

[Rob_BW]

I was also wondering about beer and Israel.

Curious about the word shekhar. Seems like a good case can be made that it referred to beer.

 

[HankD]

I was also wondering about beer and Israel.

Curious about the word shekhar. Seems like a good case can be made that it referred to beer.

Or even a distilled spirit. The ancients were knowledgeable about distillation.

http://montgomerydistillery.com/our-process/distilling/

HankD

 

[Jerome]

I was also wondering about beer and Israel. urious about the word shekhar. Seems like a good case can be made that it referred to beer.

Or even a distilled spirit. The ancients were knowledgeable about distillation.

http://montgomerydistillery.com/our-process/distilling/

Huh? Your link clearly states:

At this time, distilling was not practiced for drinking enjoyment

 

[HankD]

Huh? Your link clearly states:

Not I Jerome - where supposedly did I say this?

Thanks
HankD

 

[John of Japan]

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how unfermented grape juice "cheers the heart of man."

I enjoy a glass every morning. Love it!

 

[John of Japan]

"new wine" is alcoholic and bubbly due to carbon dioxide still being released.
Then it is aged in "wine skins" or containers and loses CO2.

Really? A grape has carbon dioxide in it? So, like, if we had a food fight with grapes, those things would be exploding when they hit. Cool! (Note that the OT even uses the term "new wine" to refer to the juice in the grapes.)

Since the wine yeast is naturally on the grape skin,
fermentation is "automatic" once the grapes are crushed.
This process of natural fermentation begins immediately.
"New" or "Old", it is all alcoholic.

This has been said before here, but I've never seen it proven. Do you have some kind of scientific evidence for this? And it seems to me that if it is true, that doesn't mean that there would be much alcohol at all for quite awhile, probably not enough to taste or even matter.

According to the Wikipedia article, "It should be noted that few yeast, and lactic and acetic acid bacterial colonies naturally live on the surface of grapes." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_in_winemaking). Now, Wikipedia is not reliable as a source, but this article does source the information. In other words, to be sure to have grape juice ferment because of yeast on the grapes, you must purposefully put the yeast there. Furthermore, it seems like a simple process before or right after harvesting the grapes could wash the grapes and produce pure grape juice, if one wished to do so.

 

[John of Japan]

I think it's obvious that the word wine can either mean alcoholic or non alcoholic fruit of the vine. This would explain why in some passages in the word of God it seems that wine is spoken of in a good light, that it "cheers the heart of man", and why other passages say not even to look at wine when it is red, and that wine is a mocker.

Don't let these folk fool you. This paragraph is 100% accurate. My favorite lexicon says of oinos: "wine; (1) literally, of the juice of grapes, usually fermented" (Friberg Anlex). This means, of course, that the word does not always point to fermented wine. One place it is clearly non-alcoholic is Luke 5:37-38. As proof that "new wine" in Jewish thinking was non-alcoholic, in the OT it even refers to the juice while it is in the grape (Is. 65:8).