They Call Me Liberal ........

[Bro. Curtis]

Gee, somehow I just don't feel the need to justify anything to you, P.J.. I also find it funny that you think you speak for anyone but yourself.

Thanx for playing, though.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

....Jesus focus ministry than it is to upholding biblical values of peace, love, justice, and mercy.

And where does eternal death from rejection of said Christ come in ? What IS the central part of Christ's teachings ? To be nice to each other ?

 

[Crabtownboy]

And this is where you have to help me out. Because I'm a firm believer that God does not author confusion. SO how does one say I'm pro-people and pro-helping people yet support someone who is okay with taking the life of the very people you say you want to help?

I agree God is not an author of confusion. Too bad we humans do not have perfect understanding of God and too bad we do not always act perfectly within his will.

I believe Obama is interested in helping the poor, the needy, those without medical insurance. He may not always act in the way I would like.

This is where I am left with a question mark as to what is really important to people?

Is it more important to help people at the expense of it looking like you don't love the Christ we say we are to keep first? Because when someone supports someone who does not support the things that Christ does, it makes it difficult to take them at their word that the love Him with all their , heart, soul, body and mind.

But rest assured, it's the same question I have asked of the "conservatives" who are supporting a man who worships a false god.

Good question. I have not had much time to consider the question. But a quick answer is the parable of the Good Samaritan. Let me put that parable in a modern setting.

There was a man walking on a dark street one night. He was set upon by a gang and beaten and left for dead. A Baptist preacher saw him as he drove by but thought to himself, "He is a homeless person not deserving my help. Anyway I have a deacons meeting to go to and that is important. Soon as he drove past the man a politician saw the man, but did not stop thinking, "I might be in danger if I stopped and this isn't my district. He can't vote for me even if he votes." So he did not stop. Shortly after that a Muslim saw the man. He stopped his car and cared for the man, getting help and seeing that he was taken care of.

Which person was pro-people in this parable?


Let's turn that a bit and maybe this answers you question better. Would I help a Muslim who was hurt and risk the condemnation of those who call themselves Christian but who hate and would not help a person of another faith?

Yes, I would take that risk and help the Muslim ... just as I would help any person.

As I have said before, Jesus did not ask people a list of questions before he helped them. He simply helped them. At least that is my understanding.

 

[Arbo]

I support Planned Parenthood in those areas where they help the poor and needs with no insurance with their medical problems that do not include abortion. Because I support one service does not mean I support all services.

Do you feel the poor and needy with no insurance should be helped medically?

And the Nazis were worthy of support because of the programs that put people back to work.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So murdering children can just be overlooked?

Read my reply above and try to comprehend.

 

[Zaac]

So murdering children can just be overlooked?

Y'all overlook Mitt Romney worshiping a false god.

So what's the difference?

 

[Zaac]

Read my reply above and try to comprehend.

You explained yourself quite well. There are just some on here who feel they can have their exceptions but you can't.:laugh:

 

[mandym]

I agree God is not an author of confusion. Too bad we humans do not have perfect understanding of God and too bad we do not always act perfectly within his will.

I believe Obama is interested in helping the poor, the needy, those without medical insurance. He may not always act in the way I would like.

This is where I am left with a question mark as to what is really important to people?



Good question. I have not had much time to consider the question. But a quick answer is the parable of the Good Samaritan. Let me put that parable in a modern setting.

There was a man walking on a dark street one night. He was set upon by a gang and beaten and left for dead. A Baptist preacher saw him as he drove by but thought to himself, "He is a homeless person not deserving my help. Anyway I have a deacons meeting to go to and that is important. Soon as he drove past the man a politician saw the man, but did not stop thinking, "I might be in danger if I stopped and this isn't my district. He can't vote for me even if he votes." So he did not stop. Shortly after that a Muslim saw the man. He stopped his car and cared for the man, getting help and seeing that he was taken care of.

Which person was pro-people in this parable?


Let's turn that a bit and maybe this answers you question better. Would I help a Muslim who was hurt and risk the condemnation of those who call themselves Christian but who hate and would not help a person of another faith?

Yes, I would take that risk and help the Muslim ... just as I would help any person.

As I have said before, Jesus did not ask people a list of questions before he helped them. He simply helped them. At least that is my understanding.

Hmm...I wonder how the Samaritan would have handled a child being aborted. I doubt the Samaritan would have tolerated the baby sacrifices at the Temple of Pan in the Gate of hell. Apparently you would have found a way.

 

[Zaac]

Good question. I have not had much time to consider the question. But a quick answer is the parable of the Good Samaritan. Let me put that parable in a modern setting.

There was a man walking on a dark street one night. He was set upon by a gang and beaten and left for dead. A Baptist preacher saw him as he drove by but thought to himself, "He is a homeless person not deserving my help. Anyway I have a deacons meeting to go to and that is important. Soon as he drove past the man a politician saw the man, but did not stop thinking, "I might be in danger if I stopped and this isn't my district. He can't vote for me even if he votes." So he did not stop. Shortly after that a Muslim saw the man. He stopped his car and cared for the man, getting help and seeing that he was taken care of.

Which person was pro-people in this parable?

Which one was pro-Jesus? Now don't get me wrong, I understand what you were getting at. But outside of the indwelling of Jesus Christ, the Muslim, who lacks such an indwelling, is doing what he does for self-serving reasons and will still go to hell.

Can one REALLY do anything for anything but selfish reasons absent the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Let's turn that a bit and maybe this answers you question better. Would I help a Muslim who was hurt and risk the condemnation of those who call themselves Christian but who hate and would not help a person of another faith?

Yes, I would take that risk and help the Muslim ... just as I would help any person.

I agree. But I think a question more in line with what I have asked many would be "would you let others see you steal in order to help that Muslim"?

As I have said before, Jesus did not ask people a list of questions before he helped them. He simply helped them. At least that is my understanding.

Agreed, but in doing so, He witnessed Himself not AGAINST Himself.

And I think the question I keep getting back to is something that was said in the OT about OBEDIENCE being better than Sacrifice.

Is it more important to help the Muslim or to not steal?

 

[Zaac]

Hmm...I wonder how the Samaritan would have handled a child being aborted. I doubt the Samaritan would have tolerated the baby sacrifices at the Temple of Pan in the Gate of hell. Apparently you would have found a way.

Hopefully the Good Samaritan likewise would not also have been telling folks that it's better to go to Pan's temple and worship him than it is to go to Pan's temple and sacrifice babies.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Y'all overlook Mitt Romney worshiping a false god.

So what's the difference?

I hope you are consistent on this, should Obama win.

The man I am voting for gives me no reason to think he is saved, yet his view of the country is as close to Thomas Jefferson's as I've seen.

Who would you tell me to look at for president ?

 

[Alcott]

In the way you put it, yes. And in being pro-Christ we must live our lives by his example. He supported and helped people. He did not enter politics. He did not talk about politics. He did not ask people what they believed, if they were moral, if they were sinless or what their political position was ... he simply met them, helped them and often told them to go and sin no more.

Wha-at??
Just at that time some Pharisees approached, saying to Him, “Go away, leave here, for Herod wants to kill You.” And He said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal' [Luke 13:31-32].

When He entered the house, the blind men came up to Him, and Jesus *said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They *said to Him, “Yes, Lord" [Matthew 9:28].

Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these” [John 1:50].

Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” [John 9:35].

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” [John 11:26-27].

Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? [John 16:31].

 

[Zaac]

I hope you are consistent on this, should Obama win.

It won't change. As bad as some think Obama is for this country, I believe Christians supporting a man who worships a false god is worse IF we are serious about His two greatest commandments and completing His Great Commission.

The man I am voting for gives me no reason to think he is saved, yet his view of the country is as close to Thomas Jefferson's as I've seen.

So which is more important: saving this country or seeing folks saved for eternity?

If you could with full assurance know that one unsaved person would come to faith in Christ because he was not confused by evangelicals saying they love Jesus but support a candidate who doesn't and have Obama for another four years, or unseat Obama, which would you choose?

Who would you tell me to look at for president ?

I would say the same thing I said to CBT: Obedience is greater than sacrifice. We aren't doing anyone any eternal favors by "saving the country" if we"re left with no platform to speak to them about saving their eternal souls.

 

[Tom Bryant]

We are not electing a President to be a theologian or even to get us to come to his church. We do elect a president who will defend this nations people, whether born or unborn. And our current President stands firmly supportive of killing the unborn.

Should President Obama win again, the battlefield in the next 4 years will move to protecting the senior citizens from the bureaucrats who, under the guise of Obamacare, will refuse treatment to them. And this President will again side with those who want to take life.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Zaac, I appreciate your question, I really do.

First -- theologically I do not see myself as liberal. I see no conflict between God and science. God created the laws we of nature/science that we are slowly discovering. Where there is seeming conflict it only means we have not yet made enough discovers to fully understand.

On the BB I am considered liberal not because of science, but because of politics. I believe that Christ prefers people over politics and corporations. Of course there were no corporations during the time he was on earth. So nothing is said about them as it would have been meaningless to the people he was speaking to and teaching.

It is not God's word that is the problem. It is our interpretation ... and none of us have all the answers. Also none of us understand perfectly. Additionally I am stuck with interpreting using only English. That alone creates problems as it does for anyone who is limited to English. There is meaning lost in every translation from one language to another.

Two -- I do not see myself as so liberal in politics. The way Christ lived his life and how he interacted with others greatly influence me as to what policies I agree with and support. If I see policies that conflict with how I believe Christ would want we Christian to live I will oppose them. When people in need are ignored or harmed through policies and proposed policies I will be firmly against them. I do not see that as either conservative nor liberal. I see it as following the teachings of Christ. Thus I see myself as neither conservative nor liberal as I am pro-people and try to be pro-people to the best of my understanding of Christ and his life and teachings.

I know my answer will draw hoots of derision from some. That's OK. I simply consider the source and understand that they do not understand and some are not willing to try to understand. That is their problem, not mine.

So, statement #3. They call me liberal because I believe Christ was more interested in people and helping people than in money or politics.

CrabtownBoy, I must say, this is one of the best posts I have seen in my years of popping in and out of this board. Well thought out and eloquently stated.

And remember, "liberal" is in the Bible. "Conservative" is not. :laugh:

 

[poncho]

There's enough faith in big government on both sides that I can't abide either anymore.

 

[Zaac]

We are not electing a President to be a theologian or even to get us to come to his church. We do elect a president who will defend this nations people, whether born or unborn. And our current President stands firmly supportive of killing the unborn.

That's the same bunch of hogwash that liberals have used to justify their mess in the past and now evangelicals are using that same "we're not electing a theologian in chief" excuse to buffer their own unGodly decisions.

Should President Obama win again, the battlefield in the next 4 years will move to protecting the senior citizens from the bureaucrats who, under the guise of Obamacare, will refuse treatment to them. And this President will again side with those who want to take life.

So what? Seems that the evangelical masses are more concerned about saving folks to this world than they are to saving them for eternity. Might explain all the sudden willingness to compromise and support a false god worshiper.

 

[carpro]

When people in need are ignored or harmed through policies and proposed policies I will be firmly against them. I do not see that as either conservative nor liberal. I see it as following the teachings of Christ. Thus I see myself as neither conservative nor liberal as I am pro-people and try to be pro-people to the best of my understanding of Christ and his life and teachings.

There is nothin biblical about using the government to take what one person has earned and give it to someone you think needs it more. In the Bible, that would be called theft.

Jesus was never an advocate of using the proceeds of theft to help others.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

....Jesus focus ministry than it is to upholding biblical values of peace, love, justice, and mercy.

And where does eternal death from rejection of said Christ come in ? What Is the central part of Christ's teachings ? To be nice to each other ?

I really can't believe this question was unanswered.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

It won't change. As bad as some think Obama is for this country, I believe Christians supporting a man who worships a false god is worse IF we are serious about His two greatest commandments and completing His Great Commission.

I'm not sure I agree. There are plenty of people who throw Christ's name around, yet run and hide when is real message is presented.

So which is more important: saving this country or seeing folks saved for eternity?

Neither. Our job is to preach Christ, and him crucified. I think the Calvinists are right about the way baptists thump their chest over their anticipated jewels.

If you could with full assurance know that one unsaved person would come to faith in Christ because he was not confused by evangelicals saying they love Jesus but support a candidate who doesn't and have Obama for another four years, or unseat Obama, which would you choose?

:laugh:...I'm in tears over here....how did Kieth Olbermann get posting priveleges here ?


:laugh::laugh:

Seriously.....are you serious ?

I would say the same thing I said to CBT: Obedience is greater than sacrifice. We aren't doing anyone any eternal favors by "saving the country" if we"re left with no platform to speak to them about saving their eternal souls.

Name a country who's poplulation has done more to fulfill the great comission than the U.S..