This Guy: Mark Keith Robinson

[TCassidy]

Can you love them as your own self and send them to hell?

Where in the world (and it is a worldly view) did you get the idea that we have the power and authority to send people to hell? Only God has that power and authority.

If you think you have the power to send someone to hell, do you also think you have the power to send them to heaven? Will you kill your children before they reach the "age of accountability" in order to send them to heaven?

Will you kill all Christians in order to send them to heaven, which is a much nicer place than staying here on earth?

I think you may be a sadly confused man. I recommend you spend some time talking with your pastor. He may be able to help with your confusion.

 

[TCassidy]

Did you ever consider yourself "unequally yoked together with unbelievers"?

Only in threads like these.

 

[1689Dave]

Why would a Christian not want a gun?

The reasons for are legion.

Self Defense.
Defense of family.
Defense of others.
Sport (Competitive shooting)
Defense of our community (IE, why Police are armed)
Defense of our country (IE, why the military are armed)
To practice use of firearms to maintain proficiency for all of the above (the purpose of the 2nd amendment).

Thanks for sharing. This is all good for the civil magistrate. God appointed him to bear the sword. But it is not our calling as followers of Christ. He told us to put away the sword when he commanded Peter to do so.

 

[Revmitchell]

T He told us to put away the sword when he commanded Peter to do so.

No He didn't, that is just a plain misuse of scripture.

 

[TCassidy]

We are never to meet evil with evil.

Failure to do all possible to prevent the rape and murder of your wife and daughter is evil.

 

[1689Dave]

You are skirting the issue. We're not talking about the threat of death, we are talking about death itself. If a criminal intruder is pointing a gun at your lost loved one and starting to squeeze the trigger, and you are there and capable of stopping the murder of your beloved, yet lost, family member, what do you do? This is not a hypothetical situation, but it happens every day in America.

As far as facing a violent intruder unarmed and having this "reveal Christ to them," that is ridiculous. Read the news. Most of these violent home invasion events happen in the dead of the night in an extremely short time frame. So while you are saying, "Let me tell you about Je...," you have already been shot and are winging your way to Heaven.

I have in my files stories about people sharing Jesus successfully with kidnappers and foiling the crime in that way, but in a kidnapping that is possible. Not in a violent home invasion.

Thanks for making this an interesting thread. I would do everything short of killing my enemy. But killing him would be worse than if he killed me. If my loved one is lost, would it not be God’s wrath falling on them? “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

 

[TCassidy]

But it is not our calling as followers of Christ.

You do not dictate the scope and extent of my calling.

He told us to put away the sword when he commanded Peter to do so.

No, He did not! He told Peter not to use the sword improperly, and to assume that Christ needed or wanted Peter's intervention. Christ came to die. His death, burial, and resurrection were the culmination of His earthly ministry. A text out of context is a pretext.

 

[1689Dave]

Failure to do all possible to prevent the rape and murder of your wife and daughter is evil.

I cannot find exceptions in scripture to loving your enemies. Faith comes from hearing the word. And whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[1689Dave]

You do not dictate the scope and extent of my calling.

No, He did not! He told Peter not to use the sword improperly, and to assume that Christ needed or wanted Peter's intervention. Christ came to die. His death, burial, and resurrection were the culmination of His earthly ministry. A text out of context is a pretext.

If you could provide scripture dictating the scope of your calling, it would be enlightening.

 

[TCassidy]

If my loved one is lost, would it not be God’s wrath falling on them?

If the murderer was lost, would it not be God's wrath falling on them? You can't have it both ways. If you approve of the killing of your lost family member because it was God's wrath on them then you must also approve of the killing of the murderer/rapist for the same reason.

Again, I point out that you are very, very confused. Seek counsel from a more spiritually mature pastor or counselor.

 

[TCassidy]

I cannot find exceptions in scripture to loving your enemies.

Nobody asked you to. You just assume that it is impossible to love a person and send him to face God's Righteous Judgment. And that is a completely unwarranted assumption.

 

[1689Dave]

No He didn't, that is just a plain misuse of scripture.

Jesus told us to observe all that he commanded the apostles.

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19–20) (KJV 1900)

Again, you have not found your position demonstrated by Christians in the NT. But they all did the exact opposite.

 

[TCassidy]

If you could provide scripture dictating the scope of your calling, it would be enlightening.

My calling is none of your business. It is between God and me. And has been for over 45 years.

 

[1689Dave]

If the murderer was lost, would it not be God's wrath falling on them? You can't have it both ways. If you approve of the killing of your lost family member because it was God's wrath on them then you must also approve of the killing of the murderer/rapist for the same reason.

Again, I point out that you are very, very confused. Seek counsel from a more spiritually mature pastor or counselor.

If you could prove Christian Violence from scripture, this entire discussion would be resolved.

 

[1689Dave]

My calling is none of your business. It is between God and me. And has been for over 45 years.

I'm only saying, you do not have scripture to substantiate your calling as far as violence is concerned. It is opposite of Christ.

 

[TCassidy]

Jesus told us to observe all that he commanded the apostles.

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19–20) (KJV 1900)

Again, you have not found your position demonstrated by Christians in the NT. But they all did the exact opposite.

Please do not make a veiled accusation that Revmitchell (and by implication the rest of us) don't keep the Great Commission because we believe we, and our loved ones, have the right to life, given to us by God Himself.

 

[TCassidy]

If you could prove Christian Violence from scripture, this entire discussion would be resolved.

If you could understand that "If the murderer was lost, would it not be God's wrath falling on them? You can't have it both ways. If you approve of the killing of your lost family member because it was God's wrath on them then you must also approve of the killing of the murderer/rapist for the same reason" this entire discussion would be resolved.

 

[1689Dave]

Please do not make veiled accusation that Revmitchell (and by implication the rest of us) don't keep the Great Commission because we believe we, and our loved ones, have the right to life, given to us by God Himself.

If any of you who advocate violence can endorse it as your calling from the NT, I will buy a gun and learn to trust in it rather than God. It would be much easier.

 

[1689Dave]

If you could understand that "If the murderer was lost, would it not be God's wrath falling on them? You can't have it both ways. If you approve of the killing of your lost family member because it was God's wrath on them then you must also approve of the killing of the murderer/rapist for the same reason" this entire discussion would be resolved.

Yes, but vengeance belongs to the Lord, not us.

 

[TCassidy]

I'm only saying, you do not have scripture to substantiate your calling as far as violence is concerned. It is opposite of Christ.

Do not, ever again, say or imply that my calling is opposite of Christ. I have faithfully served Almighty God for over 45 years. I pastored the same church for 27 years. I taught at the same Seminary for 25 years. I have trained hundreds of men for ministry, and sent them all across this great nation and to the ends of the earth. I have given my life to His service. And now I am slowly dying from a vicious disease, and long for the end of suffering and pain, when I will see my Savior face to face.

Do not, ever again, say my calling is opposite of Christ.