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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Sep 10, 2021.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are Calvinist Baptists, also known as reformed/particular, and we were the majority among american baptists for quite a while!
     
    #41 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false claim, anyone can say they adhere to the baptist distinctives, but no matter the name, people who do not believe in the word of God are not Baptists.
    Calvinists say Jesus did not die as a ransom for all.
    Calvinists say God does not desire all people to be saved.
    Calvinists say God did not choose for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth.

    I could go on and on...
     
    #42 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  3. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Sorry Van, but while I am not a Calvinist, my Baptist DNA is rooted in the Particular Baptists of the late 18th Century. The split between Missionary and Anti-Missionary came in the early 19th Century. If you aren't descended from the Particulars then you come out of the Free Willers (General).
     
    #43 Squire Robertsson, Oct 19, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Particulars are Calvinists and do not adhere to the baptist distinctives.

    Calvinists say Jesus did not die as a ransom for all. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God does not desire all people to be saved. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God did not choose for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. What do Particulars say?

    A skunk by any other name would stink the same.
     
    #44 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Baptists do NOT state that one must be a Calvinist or a non cal as one of our distinctives, Van!
     
    #45 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Particular/reformed/Calvinist Baptists have a much greater claim to being real baptists though Van then 'general free willers", based upon history and theology, but both Calvinists and non cals are to be seen as baptists!
     
    #46 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The tradition are the 66 handed down books that make up our Bible.
     
    #47 37818, Oct 19, 2021
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false charge from the Calvinists. The Baptist distinctives preclude being an actual baptist, only a BINO.
     
    #48 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Utterly false claim. Calvinists are not "real Baptists" as they reject God's word such as Christ died as a ransom for all.
     
    #49 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Spurgeon was not a Baptist then?
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, we reject your misunderstanding of what the scriptures actually teach!
     
    #51 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
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  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false claim by @Van, who has not the faintest notion of what Calvinists believe.
    You do. :rolleyes:
     
    #52 Martin Marprelate, Oct 19, 2021
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  13. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Van, have you ever read Thomas Armitage's or John Christian's Baptist Histories or Hiscox's Baptist Directory or Francis Waylandf's Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches or the New Hampshire Statement of Faith?
     
    #53 Squire Robertsson, Oct 19, 2021
  14. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that Van is even familiar with Albert Henry Newman's A Manual of Church History, volume 2. And I'd wager he's never opened the pages of George Park Fisher's History of The Christian Church. Both books review a great deal of Baptist history which he is unacquainted with.
     
    #54 RipponRedeaux, Oct 19, 2021
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No.
    Why, with all this vast knowledge, why not answer the questions?
    Calvinists say Jesus did not die as a ransom for all. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God does not desire all people to be saved. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God did not choose for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. What do Particulars say?

    It appears to me that no one will answer, but instead will engage in vilification. Par for the course...
     
    #55 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Some do!!
     
    #56 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Martin, your repetitive taint so post did not answer the questions.
    Calvinists say Jesus did not die as a ransom for all. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God does not desire all people to be saved. What do Particulars say?
    Calvinists say God did not choose for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. What do Particulars say?
     
    #57 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Van, let me be very, very clear. I am not vilifying you. My position is informed by reading the books I listed above. I found that one needs to be careful about conflating the positions of today's Calvinists aka Primitive Baptists. Wayland deals with the split between the Fullerites and Gillites in his book. As best as I can remember, Wayland and Fuller would say potentially Jesus died as an atonement for all, and yes he desires for all to be saved. Remember William Carey went out to India under the impetus of Fuller. I refer you to the videos I linked to in my 1/21/2021 thread https://www.baptistboard.com/thread...ngs-of-andrew-fuller-or-fuller-v-gill.119458/ .
     
    #58 Squire Robertsson, Oct 19, 2021
  19. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    That's a micro branch of Calvinistic Baptists, although there is a greater proportion representing that group on this forum. However, Primitive Baptists are not the same as "today's Calvinists."
     
    #59 RipponRedeaux, Oct 19, 2021
  20. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    That is very true. One might call the PBs the Historic Calvinistic Baptists as they carry on the thinking of John gill and the Anti-Missionary Baptists if I am not mistaken.
     
    #60 Squire Robertsson, Oct 19, 2021
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