Please show where I stated Paul was ALREADY SAVED.
Are you even reading what I am writing?
I said he was serving God according to what he understood in the Jewish view (the law) without yet understanding who Jesus was BUT still seeking to serve and follow the God of his fathers. Much like in Acts 2 which speaks of those who were devout (to God) 'according to the law' but not yet saved in the sense of Christ Jesus being revealed.. and we find that 3k get saved. Acts 10 speaks of Cornelius being a devout a man of God, again according to the law.. but not yet saved in the sense of knowing Christ... and he to became saved. However just because they are devout does not necessitate they 'will' become believers and be saved. Or one like Lydia who worshiped God but was not saved either. All of the above 'served' God but were not saved through Christ yet.. God had to reveal Christ and who is He is to them, who served him apart from this knowledge.
They were devout only as it concerns a DEAD RELIGIOUS system.
Osama Bin Laden was devout- and now he is reaping the rewards of that devotion. So would Cornelius and Lydia and Paul, etc...
What all DEVOUT people must do is the same that the Apostle Paul did with his previous devotion- he must count it all DUNG.
That is what the devoutness of every single person who knows not Christ amounts to- feces.
Paul was clear on this in Philippians 3, wasn't he?
If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof
he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church;
touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But
what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and
do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9And be found in him,
not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Again, the above is not, nor does it have anything to do with what "I" was saying but you preconceived misconception of my statement.
Again, RE-READ what I wrote. I never made the declaration man must come to God FIRST.. in fact I stated the very opposite.. as does most EVERYONE who is not Reformed.
So then what is your point with your statements about people being devout before they were saved?
Their devotion is DUNG- so what?
So it is your contention then that we are saved prior to believing?
I find scripture at odds with your statement in that it states - Believe and be saved, not - be saved and believe.
It is my contention that our salvation is already settled before we believe.
It was settled in eternity past.
We believe prior to salvation occurring in time- but after regeneration.
The same could be said of you holding to a Presbyterian view..
However, let us remember that Baptists were not reformed at their inception, that came later.
Augustinian or Reformed or biblical would be a better way of putting it- not Presbyterian.
And do you want to align yourself with the Anabaptists, really?
Do you think you have much in common with John Smyth and his general baptists?
If not, then your type of baptist to which you are closest akin comes from the Reformed Baptist camp no different from me and gl. You guys are the ones who have strayed from traditional baptist viewpoints- not us (once again- that's only if you would not consider yourself closer to John Smyth than you would, say, the Southern Baptists in their origins).
