Unfinished Business

[Linda64]

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Salvation does make a difference in behavior. My late husband chose to drink because he was told that drinking "in moderation" was okay...but drunkenness is a sin. The end result of that "moderation" was death. He professed Christ with his mouth, but his lifestyle did not reflect his profession...alcohol was his "god", not Christ!

 

[Joe]

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Salvation does make a difference in behavior. My late husband chose to drink because he was told that drinking "in moderation" was okay...but drunkenness is a sin. The end result of that "moderation" was death. He professed Christ with his mouth, but his lifestyle did not reflect his profession...alcohol was his "god", not Christ!

One life lost to alcohol is one life too many :tear:
Sorry for your loss Linda

 

[EdSutton]

Sure I noticed, but I've been here considerably longer than you have, and know quite a bit more about the history here than you do. As I'm bound by an agreement from my old moderator days, that'll have to suffice.

In hindsight, I see I should have simply PM'd my reply to her post.

Yes, it is true that you have been here for about four times as long as I have.

It is also true, according to what I read on the Baptist Board, that the "user agreement" and current rules, whatever they may be, supercede any prior ones. Hence, I read Baptist as Baptist, and a member of a Baptist church therefore qualifies for posting in "Baptist Only" section, to this BB member. Did I misread this, somehow?

Ed

 

[tinytim]

One life lost to alcohol is one life too many :tear:
Sorry for your loss Linda

'


With that I can agree also.

 

[The Scribe]

Unless you can prove from scripture whether He did or not without any doubts, we can only be "inclined" to believe one way or another.
So, where's your proof, KJV Kid?
love,
Sopranette

Okay, so I did a read through through the other posts, where you claim these posters are soft on other sins. No proof there, either.

love,

Sopranette

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. There is not one verse that says it is. It speaks of avoiding it, it speaks of not getting drunk and drunkeness as a sin but it does not say that drinking any alcohol is a sin. Period.

It is absolutely right culturally and historically to say that Jesus drank wine.

Proverbs 20:1 (KJV)
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

People are soft on sins, especially their sins. Looking through the Bible for loop holes when there aren't any.

Also, walking around with a haughty spirit that God will just forgive them of their sins without true repentance.
You can be turned over to a reprobate mind.

Roman 1:28 (KJV)
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

It seems the majority want to do as they wish and not as they are told by God and in scripture.
You can't just go to church and ask forgiveness then do as you wish when you leave church. It doesn't work that way.

Over look what the scriptures tell you and on judgement day God will over look you.

 

[Joe]

'


With that I can agree also.

You mean you and I agreed with something on an alcohol thread

Stop that :laugh:

 

[Helen]

this is only because Aaron brought it up.

I was invited to Baptist Board -- actually I received a plea to come here when the evolution/creation section was going. I stated what my beliefs were although I was not a member of a Baptist church at the time but was at a non-denominational Christian church. Looking at my statement of faith, the old administrator, Barnabas, chose to allow me to not only post but later asked me if I would be moderator of that forum. I accepted. I later was also moderator of both the private women's forum and then the public women's forum as well.

In 2002 or 2003 -- I can't remember now, I resigned moderating as we were in the process of getting the house in California up for sale and moving up here to Oregon. I was off BB for awhile then.

Since then, we are actually participating in two fellowships. Barry works with Wildfire Christian Fellowship (ABA) under Pastor Ken Armstrong as assistant pastor and we are also helping a church down the road from us recover from a very ugly split. We got involved there to an extent as I was substituting for the pastor in his math class at the high school and we got to talking! It is Brethren sponsored but essentially non-denominational. Barry has also preached there and it is there where Christmas Star was filmed in December of 2006.

We have the interesting situation starting this Sunday for the next six weeks of teaching Genesis 1-11 at the church down the road and then attending Wildfire later in the morning! But we have taught at a number of churches and if that disqualifies me from here, please let me know. Thank you.

 

[blackbird]

I was substituting for the pastor in his math class at the high school

Just out of shear wonderment, Sister Helen-----ummmmm----your capacity as (quote)"subsitute"(unquote) ---- as the instructor??? or as the student???

The pastor??? Was his label "student" or "instructor"???

Because if you're subin' for a student----it pays more than subin' for the instructor!!!:laugh:

 

[blackbird]

Which is exactly why I don't drink.. I don't want to cause others to stumble...

Too---thats just one of the reasons I don't drink

But another reason I don't drink---is because I don't want to cause ME to stumble

Because --- see -- if I cause someone to stumble ---- I can only say ----

"What an idiot I was to cause my neighbor to stumble!!!"

But if I myself stumble --- I can only say ---

"What an idiot I was to cause myself to stumble!!!"

So---I don't drink either---because I don't want to cause my neighbor to stumble------neither do I want to cause myself to stumble!!!

And beginning with the first drink----the consumer begins to stumble---and I'd rather not see me stumble!!!!

 

[Allan]

JOE - Your pm box is full, so I can not reply.

 

[282Mikado]

There's no doubt that it's because they are caught in the firm grip of the sin of moderate alcohol drinking, just as your statement (in bold) above implies.

Or... Maybe they believe some people are interpreting certain passages wrongly and have a desire to correct them, that proper justice (in their minds) may be done to God's word, just as they would try to correct any other errant interpretations.

Actually, I wasn't implying anything. I was merely stating that there are many who drink alcohol that will not give it up, regardless the cost. Alcohol does have a tenacious grip, not only on the drunkard, but on moderate drinkers as well. We know that even moderate alcohol consumption negatively affects the mind. We also know that a drink, taken in the wrong company (intended or not) can hinder someones walk or keep someone from walking the walk. We know that someone can say "I will only be a moderate drinker" and can turn into a drunkard. We know that alcohol can kill (directly or indirectly) and destroy families. Yet even though we know all these things and more, there are Christians who refuse to give it up. With all these known negatives (and more) I just want to know why? What is it about alcohol.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1

I read this as a rebuke against wine. Is this an "errant interpretation"?

Also, no one touched on my first question yet:

And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. John 2:10

If the wine in this verse is alcoholic wine (as many have stated in this thread) and the "men have well drunk" (leading us to believe they are at least mildly inebriated) wouldn't that mean that by Jesus creating more wine He is not only condoning their drunkenness, but is perpetuating it? Does this not contradict all those verses against drunkenness that have been posted earlier?

 

[Baptist Believer]

The wine I made has not spoiled yet... and I made it in July.

If indeed there was alcohol in it, it would not freeze when I put it in my freezer... but it freezes solid.

The fact that it has frozen doesn't prove there isn't alcohol in it. Since wines usually have less than 12% alcohol content (often down to 5% in white wines), the alcohol is heavily diluted by water and other substances.

A quick check of a few Web sites indicates that commercial wines (those intended to have alcoholic content) can freeze at temperatures as high as 22 degrees F. Most freezers take temperatures down well below 20 degrees F.

 

[Brother Bob]

Too---thats just one of the reasons I don't drink

But another reason I don't drink---is because I don't want to cause ME to stumble

Because --- see -- if I cause someone to stumble ---- I can only say ----

"What an idiot I was to cause my neighbor to stumble!!!"

But if I myself stumble --- I can only say ---

"What an idiot I was to cause myself to stumble!!!"

So---I don't drink either---because I don't want to cause my neighbor to stumble------neither do I want to cause myself to stumble!!!

And beginning with the first drink----the consumer begins to stumble---and I'd rather not see me stumble!!!!

Very enlightening................:laugh: In "other words" you don't want to stumble or cause anyone to stumble........., because if you stumble, you might cause someone else to stumble, then you both have stumbled, ........and you can say to him that he has stumbled, and he can say to you that you have stumbled, and you both can say, "we sameo, sameo".............is that correct? :laugh:

 

[Helen]

LOL....I met him when I substitute taught his algebra class....he talked to me on the phone before the class, when he was sick, to tell me what was happening, what they were doing, where materials were, etc. Later I got together with him at the school (since I had subbed for more than one day for him) and caught him up with what I had done, who was having trouble, etc. Then we just started talking more. He and his wife and their children are now good friends of ours.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If the wine in this verse is alcoholic wine (as many have stated in this thread) and the "men have well drunk" (leading us to believe they are at least mildly inebriated) wouldn't that mean that by Jesus creating more wine He is not only condoning their drunkenness, but is perpetuating it? Does this not contradict all those verses against drunkenness that have been posted earlier?

You are correct in saying Jesus would have been condoning drunkenness and perpetuating their drunkenness. The guests had already 'well drunk.' They drank all that the governor of the feast had to offer. Jesus would indeed have been putting a stumbling block in front of others had that been alcoholic wine that He produced there in Cana.

The wine Jesus produced at the wedding feast of Cana was not alcoholic in content though.

 

[webdog]

You are correct in saying Jesus would have been condoning drunkenness and perpetuating their drunkenness. The guests had already 'well drunk.' They drank all that the governor of the feast had to offer. Jesus would indeed have been putting a stumbling block in front of others had that been alcoholic wine that He produced there in Cana.

The wine Jesus produced at the wedding feast of Cana was not alcoholic in content though.

If I recall, the crowds were "well fed" during 2 of His miracles. I doubt not ONE person was gluttonous in either occasion out of thousands. Would Jesus be guilty of contributing to their gluttony?

 

[282Mikado]

If I recall, the crowds were "well fed" during 2 of His miracles. I doubt not ONE person was gluttonous in either occasion out of thousands. Would Jesus be guilty of contributing to their gluttony?

If I am well fed I indeed feel full. It does not mean I am overfed or gluttonous. However, if I am well drunk or full of alcoholic beverage, it can be relatively easy to assume that I would be inebriated as well would it not?

 

[webdog]

If I am well fed I indeed feel full. It does not mean I am overfed or gluttonous. However, if I am well drunk or full of alcoholic beverage, it can be relatively easy to assume that I would be inebriated as well would it not?

That phrase was referring to the crowd in full. I highly doubt not ONE person ate one too many fish or one too many pieces of bread.

 

[282Mikado]

That phrase was referring to the crowd in full. I highly doubt not ONE person ate one too many fish or one too many pieces of bread.

Did I say anyone over ate? NO! I said they were full. Having been a drinker in the past, I know that if I have drank enough to be considered "well drunk" then I would be at least be a little tipsy and/or light-headed. This is what alcohol does. Especially if consumed in a quantity to be considered "well drunk"

"Well fed" means you have had your fill. You did not over-eat, you had your fill. If you have your fill of alcohol you will be to some degree inebriated.

 

[webdog]

Did I say anyone over ate? NO! I said they were full. Having been a drinker in the past, I know that if I have drank enough to be considered "well drunk" then I would be at least be a little tipsy and/or light-headed. This is what alcohol does. Especially if consumed in a quantity to be considered "well drunk"

"Well fed" means you have had your fill. You did not over-eat, you had your fill. If you have your fill of alcohol you will be to some degree inebriated.

I know you never said anyone committed gluttonly. I implied that. Well fed is referring to the crowd IN WHOLE not each person individually. I doubt not ONE person ate too much.

Where does Scripture condemn lighteheadedness and "tipsy-ness"? I thought it condemned drunkeness...

I can drink 8 -10 beers fairly easily and not be drunk.