Unfinished Business

[standingfirminChrist]

The wine I made has not spoiled yet... and I made it in July.

If indeed there was alcohol in it, it would not freeze when I put it in my freezer... but it freezes solid.

The fermentation process is arrested once the juice reaches 176°F. Through that and filtration, one can make an non-alcoholic wine.

Among other ways.

 

[reformedbeliever]

The wine I made has not spoiled yet... and I made it in July.

If indeed there was alcohol in it, it would not freeze when I put it in my freezer... but it freezes solid.

The fermentation process is arrested once the juice reaches 176°F. Through that and filtration, one can make an non-alcoholic wine.

Among other ways.

Of course one can make a non alcoholic juice. Just look at Welches. Of course if you were going to be nomadic, or didn't have a freezer, then just maybe the other method of preservation may have been best. Which do you think it was in antiquity?
By the way, I'm not really asking for your opinion standing. It means absolutely nothing to me.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

History records the preferred wine of Bible times was non-alcoholic. History records the way wines were preserved in their non-alcoholic state. What I made was a non-alcoholic wine in the same way described as done in Bible times.

Boiling down the expressed juice of the grape to a syrup, straining it, and putting it in an airtight container. All the yeast, natural or airborn, have been arrested.

You can say it is juice, and by today's definition, you are correct. But according to history, it is wine. The same wine that Isaiah records is found in the cluster. The same wine that is said to be in the winepresses. Not a manmade alcoholic drink.

What I made is the same wine that the Word of God declares 'maketh glad the heart of man.' Not the wine that 'biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder.'

 

[reformedbeliever]

Is this business finished yet?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Your sarcasm is saddening.

 

[webdog]

strong drink was wine fortified with spices or othere ingredients to make it stronger. A mixed drink.

It was not, it was beer.

 

[Aaron]

Of course if you were going to be nomadic, or didn't have a freezer, then just maybe the other method of preservation may have been best.

If I recall my social studies correctly, nomads didn't stick around long enough to plant vineyards. I do remember reading they dug a lot of wells though.

It seems to me that if you're planting vineyards, and you're set up to press wine, you're pretty much set up to use SFIC's methods.

 

[282Mikado]

A couple questions and an observation:

1.

And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. John 2:10

If the wine in this verse is alcoholic wine (as many have stated in this thread) and the "men have well drunk" (leading us to believe they are at least mildly inebriated) wouldn't that mean that by Jesus creating more wine He is not only condoning their drunkenness, but is perpetuating it? Does this not contradict all those verses against drunkenness that have been posted earlier?

2.

Since no one can know prior to their first drink whether or not they are prone to alcoholism, why do so many Christians find it necessary to condone drinking when it could lead to the fall of a brother? Why drink alcohol at all?

Observation

From personal experience I can state as fact that my not drinking has not only benefited my testimony with fellow Christians, but has also made a positive impact on those not saved. Hypothetical... If you go to a restaurant and are seen drinking several drinks by a weak brother or an unsaved person just looking to throw stones or find fault, are you not hindering God's work, weakening your testimony, and possibly hindering someone from choosing to follow Christ?

I don't know 100% whether or not alcohol in moderation is sin, and I certainly don't believe it is unpardonable sin, but if just one drink taken can possibly be a detriment to someone's walk or another's possible salvation, is that not sin?

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Rom 14:21-23

Will rewards be taken away at the judgment seat of Christ for that? I don't think drinking alcohol is worth that risk.

If you want to drink, fine. It won’t hinder my walk and I sure hope it doesn’t hinder others’, but I sure would like to know what it is about alcohol that makes some Christians so militantly opposed to giving it up.

 

[tinytim]

A couple questions and an observation:

Since no one can know prior to their first drink whether or not they are prone to alcoholism, why do so many Christians find it necessary to condone drinking when it could lead to the fall of a brother? Why drink alcohol at all?

Observation

From personal experience I can state as fact that my not drinking has not only benefited my testimony with fellow Christians, but has also made a positive impact on those not saved. Hypothetical... If you go to a restaurant and are seen drinking several drinks by a weak brother or an unsaved person just looking to throw stones or find fault, are you not hindering God's work, weakening your testimony, and possibly hindering someone from choosing to follow Christ?

I don't know 100% whether or not alcohol in moderation is sin, and I certainly don't believe it is unpardonable sin, but if just one drink taken can possibly be a detriment to someone's walk or another's possible salvation, is that not sin?

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Rom 14:21-23

Which is exactly why I don't drink.. I don't want to cause others to stumble...

 

[Helen]

You know, this place is like the soap operas. I can be gone for awhile, tune in again, and absolutely nothing has changed!

Which is why I quit soap operas over 30 years ago. However I tuned in on one recently just to see what was going on. Same stuff.

So much for building up the body of Christ, right folks?

 

[readmore]

If you want to drink, fine. It won’t hinder my walk and I sure hope it doesn’t hinder others’, but I sure would like to know what it is about alcohol that makes some Christians so militantly opposed to giving it up.

There's no doubt that it's because they are caught in the firm grip of the sin of moderate alcohol drinking, just as your statement (in bold) above implies.

Or... Maybe they believe some people are interpreting certain passages wrongly and have a desire to correct them, that proper justice (in their minds) may be done to God's word, just as they would try to correct any other errant interpretations.

 

[Dale-c]

Or... Maybe they believe some people are interpreting certain passages wrongly and have a desire to correct them, that proper justice (in their minds) may be done to God's word, just as they would try to correct any other errant interpretations.

Exactly. I could take it or leave it and even argued in favor long before I ever took even a sip.

 

[Timtoolman]

Thanks all

Great information on here thanks to all who put time and effort into thier position. And a big rasberry to those who just got on their soapbox and claimed anyone discussing this was imoral or something.
I think it is clear that God warns against strong drink. My question is why would you drink. There is no reason that a person must drink today. For health is not an excuse. If you doctor recommends wine ask him to recommend something else. There are so many things today besides consumming wine or any strong drink.

Again great info here, I have never really research it because it has never been an issue with me or my family till recently. My son drinks and I posed the same questions. He said okay I will quite then and I replied I don't want you to quit because I asked you too. He is still drinking I think. I will just pray for him and pray that God will be the center of his life. That will make me happy if he does that rather he drinks or not.

 

[Aaron]

You know, this place is like the soap operas. I can be gone for awhile, tune in again, and absolutely nothing has changed!

Which is why I quit . . .

One could only hope. I never understood why you were allowed to post in the Baptist only sections, anyway.

 

[EdSutton]

One could only hope. I never understood why you were allowed to post in the Baptist only sections, anyway.

Not sure that Helen needs or wants me to defend her, but did you happen to notice "ABA" with the name of the home church on her profile page? That stands for American Baptist Association.

Get it??

"B-A-P-T-I-S-T"

Now try putting those seven letters together, without the spaces between the letters.

What your profile says you is!

Ed

 

[Aaron]

Sure I noticed, but I've been here considerably longer than you have, and know quite a bit more about the history here than you do. As I'm bound by an agreement from my old moderator days, that'll have to suffice.

In hindsight, I see I should have simply PM'd my reply to her post.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

According to NHTSA's preliminary Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data, alcohol-related traffic fatalities are up to 17,941 for 2006 versus 17,525 for 2005, representing a 2.4 percent increase. Fatalities involving a driver with a .08 BAC or higher rose from 13,613 in 2005 to 13,990 in 2006, representing a 2.8 percent increase. At the same time, overall traffic fatalities are down slightly by 0.3 percent.

I wonder how many lives might have been saved had someone not been told that God allows drinking alcohol in moderation. How many became drunkards and went to hell because they read posts online where people said it is ok to drink in moderation and that one drink deceived them and caused them to want more? How many children died because their father was told it was ok to drink just one glass and he could not handle it? How many wives beaten?

Do you think God is pleased when someone becomes a drunkard because a christian 'told me Jesus made alcoholic wine and drank alcoholic wine.'

How many are in hell today because of a stumblingblock placed in front of them in the form of written word?

I know of at least one person who died a drunkard because of believing someone else when they said 'just one drink is ok.' My oldest brother.

I am sure there are thousands of others that have believed it was ok to drink that one drink that ended up in being drunkards and have opened their eyes in hell being in torment.

I am sure my brother is crying out for someone to be sent to warn others not to take that first drink of what sent him to hell.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I wonder how many more have to die in alcohol related deaths?

 

[tinytim]

Only one thing will send a person to Hell... and that is unbelief.

Anything else adds works to salvation.
I notice you bolded "Drunkards"....
not moderates.... but Drunkards... and so far, everyone on here has said Drunkennes is a sin... so I don't know what people are arguing about...

Being Drunk is a sin...
But that doesn't send you to Hell...

Unbelief does.

 

[annsni]

There's no doubt that it's because they are caught in the firm grip of the sin of moderate alcohol drinking, just as your statement (in bold) above implies.

Or... Maybe they believe some people are interpreting certain passages wrongly and have a desire to correct them, that proper justice (in their minds) may be done to God's word, just as they would try to correct any other errant interpretations.

Could be because it tastes good! Hey, I will fully admit that I'm completely addicted to British tea. Good and strong. I love it and want to have it a lot.

When I used to drink, a nice glass of white wine with a nice dinner tasted yummy. It was nothing more than that - just tasted yummy. I still think a glass of wine with a nice dinner would taste better than water with lemon, but I choose to no longer drink due to ministries we're involved in. So I'll drink the water with lemon even though, every once in a while, I think wine would taste SO much better!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Tim,

Had my brother not believed those who said God allows drinking in moderation... he may not have drank that first drink that led to his second that led to his third, that led to his fourth, and so on... he would not have died a drunkard.

God's Word says the drunkard will not inherit the kingdom. God's Word also tells us that fermented drink deceives. Just one drink... yeah, right.

A drunkard has rejected the Lord Jesus Christ. He chose the bottle over Christ.