Voting Day (Again) in Georgia

[JonC]

Look at it this way, @Van

Abortion is a holocaust. Compare it to the Holocaust in WW2.

Your argument is that we should support death camps if one would be shut down because by closing that one deaths would be reduced.

Your claim is that you support reducing deaths. While that is true, you ate ignoring that you would be supporting deaths to get that reduction.

Even though you are opposed to the idea of abortion, both you and @Reynolds are pro-abortion where the rubber meats the road because you both support killing the unborn as if the ends (reducing abortions) justify the means (supporting 98% of abortions as a compromise to get that reduction).

Your complaint is that by not supporting the GOP I am guilty of passively allowing that 1.1% of abortions to take place. But the truth is we are not responsible for what other people do. We are responsible for our actions. I do not play any role in killing the unborn. But because of your support, you and @Reynolds share the responsibility for killing over 600,000 unborn children a year.

 

[Reynolds]

You are supporting both. Like you said, you believe it is a process.

You are supporting the limiting of 1.1% federally approved abortions by supporting keeping 98.9% of abortions legal at the federal level. You are supporting giving each state the right to kill unborn babies with the hope many will choose to restrict abortions.

That is the problem with compromise. You support limiting abortions at the cost of supporting most abortions.

You hold an anti-abortion principle, but in the end you are supporting abortion in practice. I am not sure that your words outweigh your actions. You seem to believe that do, I just do not see how.

If abortion were already illegal, you might have a point. Now from a Federal perspective, 100% of abortion is legal. To use your numbers, outlawing 2% is progress. Trump's Justices gave the States the right to make their own decisions. Many states will outlaw almost 100% off abortions.

 

[Reynolds]

@Reynolds ,

Brian Kemp committed to not banning abortions from conception to 6 weeks. That means that Brian Kemp had committed to keeping 43% of abortions legal.

That means Georgia residents who voted for Kemp directly supported killing 14,700 unborn babies in Georgia clinics.

The GOP has decided that abortion should be federally legal until the 20th week. That means those who voted Republican directly supported killing 613,500 unborn children within the US.

The idea is to get votes. I'm pretty sure most in the GOP would prefer to ban abortions. But they vow to kill thousands of children now so maybe others won't in the future.

We both believe abortion is wrong. But we are different in practice.

You are willing to support killing 613,500 a year now in the hopes others will kill less babies in the future.

I am simply not willing to kill babies.

Brino Kemp is a RINO, BUT, so he is banning 67% of abortions. 67% ban is huge progress over the previous 0% ban.
And you are serious telling me that you don't Let the perfect become the enemy of the good?

 

[Reynolds]

Look at it this way, @Van

Abortion is a holocaust. Compare it to the Holocaust in WW2.

Your argument is that we should support death camps if one would be shut down because by closing that one deaths would be reduced.

Your claim is that you support reducing deaths. While that is true, you ate ignoring that you would be supporting deaths to get that reduction.

Even though you are opposed to the idea of abortion, both you and @Reynolds are pro-abortion where the rubber meats the road because you both support killing the unborn as if the ends (reducing abortions) justify the means (supporting 98% of abortions as a compromise to get that reduction).

Your complaint is that by not supporting the GOP I am guilty of passively allowing that 1.1% of abortions to take place. But the truth is we are not responsible for what other people do. We are responsible for our actions. I do not play any role in killing the unborn. But because of your support, you and @Reynolds share the responsibility for killing over 600,000 unborn children a year.

I am anti abortion. It is a process of take what you can get in small steps.

 

[just-want-peace]

I sure am glad that we didn't decide that gaining a little ground was wrong, just cause we couldn't take the entire island at once, at Guadalcanal, or Iwo Jima, or etc., etc.!!
Strongly suspect that we would all be speaking Japanese if this had been our military strategy back then!!

 

[Van]

No. You miss the point.
SNIP

Lets see, supporting restrictions on abortion does not eliminate all abortions, so do not vote and help those advocating abortion on demand. Got it..

No one can miss a non-existent point.

Look at it this way, @Van

Your claim is that you support reducing deaths. While that is true, you are ignoring that you would be supporting deaths to get that reduction.

Your complaint is that by not supporting the GOP I am guilty of passively allowing that 1.1% of abortions to take place. But the truth is we are not responsible for what other people do. We are responsible for our actions. I do not play any role in killing the unborn. But because of your support, you and @Reynolds share the responsibility for killing over 600,000 unborn children a year.

I did not facilitate the murder of 63 million babies, those that did not vote against the godless left, which seems to include you, JonC, did.

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some.

 

[JonC]

If abortion were already illegal, you might have a point. Now from a Federal perspective, 100% of abortion is legal. To use your numbers, outlawing 2% is progress. Trump's Justices gave the States the right to make their own decisions. Many states will outlaw almost 100% off abortions.

The issue is the GOP has actively decided to hold a platform that accepts abortions before the 20th week because it is not in their best interest politically. Graham is fighting within the GOP to lower the period to 14 weeks, but is meeting resistance.

I agree that any life saved is progress.

The problem is the compromise. The GOP isn't fighting to end all a options federally. They have built in a concession to allow for the deaths of 98.9% if the unborn. Ending all abortions os the goal, but the path to that goal is paved with the bones of dead children.

 

[JonC]

Lets see, supporting restrictions on abortion does not eliminate all abortions, so do not vote and help those advocating abortion on demand. Got it..

No one can miss a non-existent point.


I did not facilitate the murder of 63 million babies, those that did not vote against the godless left, which seems to include you, JonC, did.

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some.

You voted to keep 98.9% of abortions legal at the federal level. You voted to make killing babies a state right. You are pro-abortion by your actions, even though you are against the idea of abortion.

As far as my stance against abortion being a zero policy making me a part of the godless left, that is just you lashing out. It is childish and easily ignored.

 

[JonC]

I sure am glad that we didn't decide that gaining a little ground was wrong, just cause we couldn't take the entire island at once, at Guadalcanal, or Iwo Jima, or etc., etc.!!
Strongly suspect that we would all be speaking Japanese if this had been our military strategy back then!!

Gaining ground against aboution is not wrong.

I only wish the GOP didn't have to declare 98.9% of abortions political capitol to gain that ground. That is the problem with politics. It is worldly compromise.

But don't forget the reason for my post. @Van 's claim was that not to support 98.9% of abortions ad accepted policy at this time was to support 100% of abortions.

I don't care if @Van votes. I said that should be his decision based on his convictions. He said I must vote for the GOP even if it was against my conscious or I would be supporting abortion. He called me a part of the godless left because I chose to prayerfully follow my conscience by abstaining from voting.

 

[Reynolds]

The issue is the GOP has actively decided to hold a platform that accepts abortions before the 20th week because it is not in their best interest politically. Graham is fighting within the GOP to lower the period to 14 weeks, but is meeting resistance.

I agree that any life saved is progress.

The problem is the compromise. The GOP isn't fighting to end all a options federally. They have built in a concession to allow for the deaths of 98.9% if the unborn. Ending all abortions os the goal, but the path to that goal is paved with the bones of dead children.

The GOP is fighting to end Alll abortion at the federal level. There are a few RINOS opposed, but the vast majority wants abortion outlawed. They also want a bill that will pass. 20 weeks probably won't pass. 14 weeks has even less chance.
Get what you can when you can.
Is it good to stop 2% of abortions? Yes.
It's much better to stop 100% of abortion.
What is it when you stop 0% of abortions because you can't stop 100%?
Take what you can get.
Don't "let the perfect be the enemy of the good".

 

[JonC]

I am anti abortion. It is a process of take what you can get in small steps.

I know you are anti-abortion (just as many democrats are anti-abortion). Those democrats also say progress is made on small steps as they work to bring the DNC to a different position.

The problem is what happens during g this process.

Did Kemp say he would fight to ban abortion in GA? If so I could respect that even if he met too much resistance to reach that promise.

NO. Kemp vowed to keep abortions up to the 6th week legal. I understand why he did it. But it is still supporting over 40% of the abortions that occur in GA.

And you are pro-abortion in action. I agree it to ultimately reach an anti-abortion ideal. But you are supporting keeping abortion legal at this time to end abortion in the future.

That is called "child sacrifice". The goal is good, but the means to that end is not.

 

[JonC]

The GOP is fighting to end Alll abortion at the federal level. There are a few RINOS opposed, but the vast majority wants abortion outlawed. They also want a bill that will pass. 20 weeks probably won't pass. 14 weeks has even less chance.
Get what you can when you can.
Is it good to stop 2% of abortions? Yes.
It's much better to stop 100% of abortion.
Take what you can get.
Don't "let the perfect be the enemy of the good".

I agree that the perfect would be to support no abortion. But supporting any abortion is something I simply cannot do. This less than perfect path of killing most to save some is not good.

We (my church and association) has mot become the enemy of the good (something you now are). We have found a way to save babies in the category you are killing via reaching out to those mothers rather than by murdering then for political gain.

 

[Reynolds]

I know you are anti-abortion (just as many democrats are anti-abortion). Those democrats also say progress is made on small steps as they work to bring the DNC to a different position.

The problem is what happens during g this process.

Did Kemp say he would fight to ban abortion in GA? If so I could respect that even if he met too much resistance to reach that promise.

NO. Kemp vowed to keep abortions up to the 6th week legal. I understand why he did it. But it is still supporting over 40% of the abortions that occur in GA.

And you are pro-abortion in action. I agree it to ultimately reach an anti-abortion ideal. But you are supporting keeping abortion legal at this time to end abortion in the future.

That is called "child sacrifice". The goal is good, but the means to that end is not.

Not stopping any abortion because you can not stop all abortions is "child sacrifice".

 

[Reynolds]

@JonC
This is your logic.
You see a school bus wreck. The bus is full of kids. The bus is on fire. You know you can not save all the kids. You know you can save at least 2. You refuse to save 2 because you can't save all 50.

 

[Reynolds]

I agree that the perfect would be to support no abortion. But supporting any abortion is something I simply cannot do. This less than perfect path of killing most to save some is not good.

We (my church and association) has mot become the enemy of the good (something you now are). We have found a way to save babies in the category you are killing via reaching out to those mothers rather than by murdering then for political gain.

I am not supporting ANY abortion. I am also not foolish enough to let some die because I can not save all.
As usual, you are getting quite nasty with your accusations. Church and politics are not mutually exclusive.
You just directly accused me of killing babies. Enjoy talking to yourself. I have no idea why @Salty and the admins let you by with your garbage.

 

[Van]

You voted to keep 98.9% of abortions legal at the federal level. You voted to make killing babies a state right. You are pro-abortion by your actions, even though you are against the idea of abortion.

As far as my stance against abortion being a zero policy making me a part of the godless left, that is just you lashing out. It is childish and easily ignored.

I did not facilitate the murder of 63 million babies, those that did not vote against the godless left, which seems to include you, JonC, did.

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some."

 

[JonC]

I did not facilitate the murder of 63 million babies, those that did not vote against the godless left, which seems to include you, JonC, did.

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some."

There is no "facilating". The powers of this world will do evil. The political powers of this world do not need facilating to do evil.

You are, however, actively supporting abortion. You know this as evidenced by your posts (by your claim Christians should vote regardless of their convictions).

The reason I know that you realize you are pro-abortion in your support of policies to keep abortion by the fact you are more intelligent than your post above.

 

[JonC]

I am not supporting ANY abortion. I am also not foolish enough to let some die because I can not save all.
As usual, you are getting quite nasty with your accusations. Church and politics are not mutually exclusive.
You just directly accused me of killing babies. Enjoy talking to yourself. I have no idea why @Salty and the admins let you by with your garbage.

This is not true.

Brian Kemp vowed to keep abortion up to 6 weeks legal in Georgia. That was a part of his platform.

Those who voted for him supported him (actively supported his playform....i.e., keeping about 43% of abortions performed in GA legal).

Same with the GOP. At this time they are committed to keeping 98.9% of abortions legal at a federal level. That is a part of their strategy to keep voters (to keep the pro-choice Republicans).

If you vote GOP then you support keeping those abortions legal in order to maintain political strength.

You can't get around it. You DO support abortion, you just do not support the idea of abortions.

@Van is the same. He suggests not to vote to keep 98.9% of abortions legal in order to appeal to pro-choice Republicans and attract independents is liberal. That, of course, is nonsense (he is just tossing out anything to obscure facts).

 

[JonC]

A group is killing 100 children.
You make a deal to restrict the killing.
You agree to help them kill 99 children.
They spare one as the compromise.

I rejoice in the one life saved.
I even acknowledge that you saved that life.

But at the same time you saved that life by helping to kill 99 children.


We do not control the future. But we are responsible for our actions.

Asking people to violate their conscience in order to support killing the unborn to save lives is wrong.

 

[JonC]

I did not facilitate the murder of 63 million babies, those that did not vote against the godless left, which seems to include you, JonC, did.

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some."

That is false. We work to save babies. And we save many.

The difference is I do not support keeping most abortions legal so that I can save some.

The reason is I do not believe God credits evil as good.

It is good that your support helps save some lives. But the compromise that you have chosen - sacrifice children to save children - is not good.