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Was Jesus a Pacifist?

R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scarlett O. said:
What?? I told you I was paraphrasing. Jesus said buy a sword. And yes, He did say, "if needs be, sell your cloak to do so."

That's not hyperbole. Hyperbole is an exaggeration that is not literal.

I think because He was being very literal - for the entire Last Supper portrayed by Luke.

The protection of a cloak wasn't going to do them much good. I would say that Jesus' telling them to sell the cloak if necessary only reinforces what I was trying to say.

Yes, I read the blog you posted. It's just another person's opinion.
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You are correct. That passage is not hyperbole and is in fact literal.
 
R

Rebel

Active Member
Bro. Curtis said:
Please don't send me any PMs. I won't read them. And that should be "post", not "posts". More hyperbole. Diarrhea of the mouth. Yes, you seem to be willing to throw around mean words, but have a thin skin when it comes back to you. And I don't care how you think others view me. So please, report my posts if you want to, but patting yourself on the back about it ?

Rebel, you are the one who said our words made Christ appear "bloodthirsty".

Since you have done nothing but complain about what you see as "bad attitudes".

What have you to say about my "City of God" post ? or would you rather talk about people than the subject of the O/P ?
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I still haven't seen you post accurately about anything I said. I wonder why.

Where is your "City of God" post? I must have missed it.
 
R

RLBosley

Active Member
Was Jesus a pacifist?

That may be a stretch depending on the definition of pacifism. However It's pretty clear that during his ministry, and in his teaching to the disciples, he practiced and advocated non-violence.

Yes, God judges and God kills and yes Jesus will return in righteous judgment pouring out the wrath of God, but that's him not us. Anyone who thinks the sword of his mouth means he'll actually use a sword to defeat his enemies is just flat delusional. Also, notice that Jesus is covered in blood before the battle in Revelation 19.

Christ would be (and certainly is) against the almost blind pro-war nationalism that is present in much of American Christianity today. Our readiness for war over peace is shameful.
 
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R

RLBosley

Active Member
Rebel said:
I had hoped we could discuss the various passages in a civil and reasonable way and share our conclusions. I suppose that was not a realistic hope on my part. I think I'll ask for the thread to be closed.
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Unfortunately this simply won't happen. It is far too emotional of a topic for some people and they are incapable of examining the arguments fairly.
 
A

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
All this talk about bloodthirstiness.... Without the shedding blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22), and the only sacrifice acceptable required shed blood. Is God "bloodthirsty" or not?
 
Bro. Curtis

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Rebel said:
I still haven't seen you post accurately about anything I said. I wonder why.

Where is your "City of God" post? I must have missed it.
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You don't say. Too focused on other things ? Look for it. It's there. You weren't able to get it edited, or deleted, yet.
 
Bro. Curtis

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
RLBosley said:
Was Jesus a pacifist?

That may be a stretch depending on the definition of pacifism. However It's pretty clear that during his ministry, and in his teaching to the disciples, he practiced and advocated non-violence.

Yes, God judges and God kills and yes Jesus will return in righteous judgment pouring out the wrath of God, but that's him not us. Anyone who thinks the sword of his mouth means he'll actually use a sword to defeat his enemies is just flat delusional. Also, notice that Jesus is covered in blood before the battle in Revelation 19.

Christ would be (and certainly is) against the almost blind pro-war nationalism that is present in much of American Christianity today. Our readiness for war over peace is shameful.
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We aren't talking about war exclusively, we are talking self-defense.
 
Bro. Curtis

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
And I also think the constant misrepresentation of people who believe in self defense as "ready for war" is not helping.
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
shodan said:
No, it is not just another person's opinion. It is based the cited works of some of the world's leading Evangelical New Testament scholars, men called to be teachers in the Church.

https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/of-ponds-and-pitfalls/
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Even scholars, leading or otherwise, and male teachers of the Church can be misguided sometimes - allowing emotional beliefs to sway their discernment and even leading men can sometimes be, well, as the above blog says, "arbitrary".

Even Billy Graham was wrong sometimes - as much as I love that man, I can show you times where even he was arbitrary.

I don't believe that I was being arbitrary in my posts. I tried my dead-level best to present the words of Jesus just as they were and just as they were meant.

I hate violence and war. Avoid it at as best one can, says me. But it is a part of this world sometimes.

Yes, Christians are to overlook offenses (turn the other cheek) - it says so in Proverbs, also. In fact, it says that it is to a person's glory to overlook an offense.

But if a thief break into my mother's house while I am visiting her and hits her across the left side of her head with the butt end of his gun, I am not going to stand there like a statue and pray that she turns her head and allows him to hit her on the right side of her head.

For those who believe that Jesus was encouraging blind and passive submission to harm and destruction - well, I believe based on Jesus' instructions to his disciples that this is - well, an arbitrary teaching.
 
R

Rebel

Active Member
Scarlett O. said:
Even scholars, leading or otherwise, and male teachers of the Church can be misguided sometimes - allowing emotional beliefs to sway their discernment and even leading men can sometimes be, well, as the above blog says, "arbitrary".

Even Billy Graham was wrong sometimes - as much as I love that man, I can show you times where even he was arbitrary.

I don't believe that I was being arbitrary in my posts. I tried my dead-level best to present the words of Jesus just as they were and just as they were meant.

I hate violence and war. Avoid it at as best one can, says me. But it is a part of this world sometimes.

Yes, Christians are to overlook offenses (turn the other cheek) - it says so in Proverbs, also. In fact, it says that it is to a person's glory to overlook an offense.

But if a thief break into my mother's house while I am visiting her and hits her across the left side of her head with the butt end of his gun, I am not going to stand there like a statue and pray that she turns her head and allows him to hit her on the right side of her head.

For those who believe that Jesus was encouraging blind and passive submission to harm and destruction - well, I believe based on Jesus' instructions to his disciples that this is - well, an arbitrary teaching.
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I have no problem with anything you said in this post.
 
R

Rebel

Active Member
RLBosley said:
Was Jesus a pacifist?

That may be a stretch depending on the definition of pacifism. However It's pretty clear that during his ministry, and in his teaching to the disciples, he practiced and advocated non-violence.

Yes, God judges and God kills and yes Jesus will return in righteous judgment pouring out the wrath of God, but that's him not us. Anyone who thinks the sword of his mouth means he'll actually use a sword to defeat his enemies is just flat delusional. Also, notice that Jesus is covered in blood before the battle in Revelation 19.

Christ would be (and certainly is) against the almost blind pro-war nationalism that is present in much of American Christianity today. Our readiness for war over peace is shameful.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I don't see anything that I would disagree with.
 
R

Rebel

Active Member
Bro. Curtis said:
You don't say. Too focused on other things ? Look for it. It's there. You weren't able to get it edited, or deleted, yet.
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't know I had such power.

Yes, I do have a life outside this forum, and sometimes I do miss things that have been posted. If the post to which you are referring is in this thread, I'll try to find it. You must think that it's offensive or against forum rules, or you wouldn't have said what you did.
 
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