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Was Judas Born-Again and Then Lost?

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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Yeshua1 said:
Luke stated to us that he did!
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you think that Jesus meant this literally?

"But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23

The Greek Σατανᾶς, means "adversary"; like when Judas is called, διάβολος, meaning, "false accuser"
 
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Van

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SavedByGrace said:
really, you mean that none of the OT Saints were saved? Complete rubbish.

Hebrews 9:15

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
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First you put words in my mouth, attributing to me false doctrine.
Hebrews 9:15 supports my view and contradicts your view.
 
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Van

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Folks this is basic Christian doctrine:
1) Why didn't the OT saints go directly to heaven when they physically died? Because they had not been made perfect by the washing of regeneration and the circumcision of Christ.

2) When are believers made perfect? When God puts them into Christ spiritually. That happened for the OT Saints waiting in Abraham's bosom after Christ died on the cross.
 
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Martin Marprelate

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SavedByGrace said:
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
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I think this has been answered several times. Judas was plainly not a true follower of the Lord Jesus, and our Lord knew it all along.
Judas may have been the first unbeliever to partake of the Lord's Supper but he certainly wasn't the last.
I am not a fan of OSAS, though there is a truth in it. I prefer 'the perseverance of the saints' (c.f. Matthew 24:13). Christ's saints will endure to the end - He will lose none of those whom the Father has given Him - but it is also necessary that they do endure. Those who depart from him permanently are simply not His people (1 John 2:19).
 
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percho

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Van said:
Which them are talking about, those in Abraham's bosom, or those enrolled in Heaven's general assembly.
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Them and us.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 1:14
And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; Rom 8:23

Has anyone, old testament or new testament, having the earnest, the first-fruit of the Spirit experienced the redemption of the body to date other than Christ?

for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect it. Rom 8:24,25

Isn't that also a part of salvation?
 
V

Van

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percho said:
Them and us.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 1:14
And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; Rom 8:23

Has anyone, old testament or new testament, having the earnest, the first-fruit of the Spirit experienced the redemption of the body to date other than Christ?

for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect it. Rom 8:24,25

Isn't that also a part of salvation?
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You failed to answer the question!!!
Are you referring to the OT Saints when they were in Abraham's bosom. Yes or No
 
K

Keith Mullins

Member
John 6:64
[64]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
 
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percho

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Van said:
You failed to answer the question!!!
Are you referring to the OT Saints when they were in Abraham's bosom. Yes or No
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I would say, yes to them in the bosom of the Abraham and yes, also to the following; But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. <see Rom 8:24,25 ) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (and the dead in the bosom of the Abraham Matt 22:31,32 ) shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain (shall be changed 1 Cor 15:51 and) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:13-17

Hope fulfilled, yes or no?
 
V

Van

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percho said:
I would say, yes to them in the bosom of the Abraham SNIP
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Yes, those OT Saints had gained "approval" through faith, but had not been "made perfect." Thus their salvation had not been completed, until after Christ died.

OTOH, everyone enrolled in the General Assembly has been made perfect!
 
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percho

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Van said:
Yes, those OT Saints had gained "approval" through faith, but had not been "made perfect." Thus their salvation had not been completed, until after Christ died.

OTOH, everyone enrolled in the General Assembly has been made perfect!
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Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2


what we shall be Is that, a more perfect state, than anyone who has ever lived, other than the risen, Jesus Christ?

Is Abraham and or Paul the Apostle presently in that state of being? Will that be the, state of being spoken of in 1 Cor 15:51 ?
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

Is that, the state of being, Paul is speaking of, here? If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Phil 3:11,12
 
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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
no he does not! It is exactly as it is in Acts 5:3

"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the price of the land?"
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Luke 22:3 3 uThen vSatan entered into wJudas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. Esv

Pretty clear!
 
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Yeshua1

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Van said:
Yes, those OT Saints had gained "approval" through faith, but had not been "made perfect." Thus their salvation had not been completed, until after Christ died.

OTOH, everyone enrolled in the General Assembly has been made perfect!
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All of the saved in the OT were under the same salvation we all were!
 
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