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Was Judas Born-Again and Then Lost?

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
See # 76
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I saw #76. So what? How does your question answer a question.
As to God using the unredeemed to accomplish his will...God does it all the time. God will empower antichrist to perform miracles. Is it odd that Judas also would go out among the disciples and perform miracles, yet still be unredeemed?
sbg, you seem to force your personal imagination onto scripture and then not allow God to act outside of your prescription. You do this despite all others disagreeing with you. Note that not one person holds your view. That should be a big red flag for you. Why isn't it though? Why do you demand you be the only one who is correct while all others are wrong?
I know the reason, but you wouldn't listen if I told you.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
“
SNIP
Can Jesus have said this to the TWELVE, including Judas, and not mean that, had Judas remained faithful, that he would have been in heaven?

When we see the plural "you" in scripture, as with a speaker addressing his or her audience, the idea is two or more are included, not every single individual.

However, we do know from Acts 1:25, that Judas did not go to heaven after his death, “to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas fell away, that he might go to his own place.”

In Matthew 10:1, we read, “And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction”

Mark 3:14, “He appointed twelve, that they might be with him, and that he might send them out to preach”

Mark 9:35, 41, “He sat down, and called the twelve; and he said to them… For whoever will give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because you are Christ’s, most certainly I tell you, he will in no way lose his reward”

John 6:70, “Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil (διάβολος, false accuser).”

These verses, as many others in the Gospels, clearly show that Judas, as one of the 12 Disciples, whom Jesus Christ had personally chosen, is said to also “belong to Christ”, being one of His, in a very personal way. Judas was given the same “them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction”. And to preach the Gospel Message as the other 11.

Judas was chosen from the beginning to fulfill the "betrayer" prophecy. Thus Judas being gifted to qualify as the one who betrays does not indicate acceptance.

Judas remained as one of the 12 Disciples, till the time when he chose to betray Jesus Christ to the Jewish leaders.

There is an interesting passage by the Reformed theologian Dr Robert Dabney:

“Certainly the expiation made by Christ is so related to all, irrespective of election, that God can sincerely invite all to enjoy its benefits, that every soul in the world who desires salvation is warranted to appropriate it, and that even a Judas, had he come in earnest, would not have been cast out” (Systematic Theology, p.527)

Is the example of Judas, of someone who can be “born again”, and then lose their salvation? What does this teach us about “once saved, always saved”?
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None of the 12 Disciples listed in Matthew 10:2-4 were "born anew" before Christ died!! Judas was never saved, born anew.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
this does in no way answer the OP!

Jesus is Almighty God, and there is no way that His words can mean anything other than what He says.

As we can see from these accounts in the Gospels, that Jesus spoke these words to Judas, as one of the 12 Disciples that He Himself has chosen. Jesus' language was not for this present world, but the world that is to come, in the Presence of God in heaven.
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Judas was a devil. Son of Perdition, never was saved!
 
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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
I saw #76. So what? How does your question answer a question.
As to God using the unredeemed to accomplish his will...God does it all the time. God will empower antichrist to perform miracles. Is it odd that Judas also would go out among the disciples and perform miracles, yet still be unredeemed?
sbg, you seem to force your personal imagination onto scripture and then not allow God to act outside of your prescription. You do this despite all others disagreeing with you. Note that not one person holds your view. That should be a big red flag for you. Why isn't it though? Why do you demand you be the only one who is correct while all others are wrong?
I know the reason, but you wouldn't listen if I told you.
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Dude you can't seem to understand the Scriptures :Geek
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In John 17, the Lord Jesus repeatedly declares that He has given eternal life to all those whom the Father has given Him *John 17:2 etc.). He goes on to pray that the Father would 'keep' them (John 17:11) through His name (i.e. His power).
But in John 17:12, He says that 'none of them is lost except the son of perdition that the Scriptures might be fulfilled.' "The term 'son of perdition' is a Hebraism meaning 'one who is worthy of perdition' or only fit to be lost and cast away on account of his wickedness" (J.C. Ryle. See also 1 Samuel 26:16; Psalms 79:11; Ephesians 2:3). We know that Judas was wicked (John 12:6) and that our Lord had previously called him 'a devil.' I don't see how it could be supposed that he was regenerate at any point.
Now does 'that the Scriptures might be fulfilled' refer to Judas? Opinions differ, but it might be a reference to Psalms 41:9 and Psalms 55:12-15, 20. If so then verse 15 may speak of Judas' fate.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Martin Marprelate said:
In John 17, the Lord Jesus repeatedly declares that He has given eternal life to all those whom the Father has given Him *John 17:2 etc.). He goes on to pray that the Father would 'keep' them (John 17:11) through His name (i.e. His power).
But in John 17:12, He says that 'none of them is lost except the son of perdition that the Scriptures might be fulfilled.' "The term 'son of perdition' is a Hebraism meaning 'one who is worthy of perdition' or only fit to be lost and cast away on account of his wickedness" (J.C. Ryle. See also 1 Samuel 26:16; Psalms 79:11; Ephesians 2:3). We know that Judas was wicked (John 12:6) and that our Lord had previously called him 'a devil.' I don't see how it could be supposed that he was regenerate at any point.
Now does 'that the Scriptures might be fulfilled' refer to Judas? Opinions differ, but it might be a reference to Psalms 41:9 and Psalms 55:12-15, 20. If so then verse 15 may speak of Judas' fate.
Click to expand...
Interesting that Judas seems to be the only one that had satan himself possess him to betray Jesus, not a mere demon!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
In John 17, the Lord Jesus repeatedly declares that He has given eternal life to all those whom the Father has given Him *John 17:2 etc.). He goes on to pray that the Father would 'keep' them (John 17:11) through His name (i.e. His power).
But in John 17:12, He says that 'none of them is lost except the son of perdition that the Scriptures might be fulfilled.' "The term 'son of perdition' is a Hebraism meaning 'one who is worthy of perdition' or only fit to be lost and cast away on account of his wickedness" (J.C. Ryle. See also 1 Samuel 26:16; Psalms 79:11; Ephesians 2:3). We know that Judas was wicked (John 12:6) and that our Lord had previously called him 'a devil.' I don't see how it could be supposed that he was regenerate at any point.
Now does 'that the Scriptures might be fulfilled' refer to Judas? Opinions differ, but it might be a reference to Psalms 41:9 and Psalms 55:12-15, 20. If so then verse 15 may speak of Judas' fate.
Click to expand...

the Greek is διάβολος, false accuser

None of what you say deals with the passages in the OP, which clearly shows that Judas must have been saved, for him to do exactly what the other 11 did, including the preaching of the Gospel for salvation!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Wrong, Hebrews 11:39-40
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really, you mean that none of the OT Saints were saved? Complete rubbish.

Hebrews 9:15

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
 
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