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Were they really saved?

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EricB,

I dod not say God would keep us from breaking bones, so quit lying about what I said.

I did quote Psalm 34:19, but I never mentioned verse 20. 20 is an entirely different thought; it is a direct prophecy concerning the Savior.

Verse 19 is speaking of the child of God being delivered out of afflictions.

You guys have to lie and twist our words along with the Word of God to make your false doctrine that suicides will go to heaven work.
 

Claudia_T

New Member
Ugh! I absolutely HATE when people on here start accusing others of judging someone just because they have another view of the scriptures..


Eric Im not judging anyone, ok?
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Diggin in da Word said:
If God is not allowing everybody the same amount of pain, that further proves He knows how much we can bear and that He will not allow more than we can bear.'
Sorry, but you keep pushing suicide as being forgivable and you are adding to God's Word. There are serious penalties for that.
A good tree cannot bear evil fruit.
The Bible defines only one "unforgivable" sin, and that was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which from the context, was watching Jesus perform miracles by the Spirit, and attributing them to Satan. You do not have the authority to try to define other "unforgivable" sins, and criticize anyone for saying a prticular sin is forgivable.
Again, you assume God is measuring out different amounts of pain, and that is not what any of those scriptures say. Even with Job, that is one instance where a transaction between God and Satan is recorded for us. We can draw hope from this, but it does not say that this is the cause of every christ's problems.
Quote:
was the jet-fueled fire, or building collapse in the towers "not more than they could bear", so they they were wrong to jump?

Daniel 3:17-18 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever. NO, the fires of 911 were not too much for anyone that was a Christian.
So you take Daniel, which was a special case of divine protection, and compare it to today. And you compare a threat of renouncing God, to a totally different situation (a fire). There is another thread about "lapsis", and as far as I read, you did not have as much argument in favor of those who renounce Christ in such situations. The most I saw was "that is difficult..." or something like that.
standingfirminChrist said:
1. you are bringing the jumpers into the suicide picture like they are the ones mentioned in the OP as they will not go to hell. We do not know they were Christains.

2. in saying that you are painting a picture that there could not have been any Christians who stayed in that fire, that if there were any Christians, they all jumped. Highly improbable.

3. you are implying that if there were Christians there that God would not protect them if it were His will,

The whole 9-11 scenario (begun by xdisciple) was just an illustration of where your reasoning would lead. I kept bringing it up, because nobody addressed it, and now you all finally have begun addressing (I guess you need time to think up your responses to save your doctrine, and even these, which boil down to "you don't know they were Christians" isn't saying much.
Again, does God always protect people from such things today? Most of you fundies do not even believe in such supernatural miracles for today; saying it ended when the Canon was complete, and relegating it as "charismatic nonsense", as one magazine once said. Does a Christian never even have broken bones, like that Psam seemed to "promise"?
One who is of God is not going to bow down to idols without there being punishment. That is Scriptural. Anywhere people are serving other gods, there has to be punishment.

That is, in effect what that have done. They have taken their eyes of of the Savior (if they ever truly were on the Savior), and placed their faith in an object, bowing down to it as the god that could help them in trials.
If the last act on earth is placing faith in a gun or other object and not the Lord, punishment must be carried out.
Sure! Nobody has EVER denied that. There is something called the Judgment seat of Christ, where we all must stand to give account of our actions in the body. That is where such would be hendled, so Hell (nullification of salvation) is not needed for their to be judgment for a Christian committing a sin like that.
And again, you misuse the concept of "faith", and what our faith is placed in. He is not "placing faith in a gun", "Faith" is about salvation, not "help in trials"; and he does not think the gun is "saving him" in any biblical sense. Again, nobody will be judged (to Hell) based on your own definitions of biblical terms.
 

Claudia_T

New Member
Eric,

Okay you say we dont have the right to change that to mean "the end" of our lives. but read the entire chapter. The same section, Jesus is talking about that guy who built the barns and etc and so forth and then he dies that night and God says his soul is required...

So its talking all about the same thing right directly after that Jesus says the part about watching and waiting...


Look:

Luke 12:
15: And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16: And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18: And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19: And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20: But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21: So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22: And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23: The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24: Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25: And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26: If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27: Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29: And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30: For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31: But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32: Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33: Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
35: Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36: And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38: And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39: And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40: Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41: Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42: And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44: Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45: But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46: The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
 

Claudia_T

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Exactly Claudia,

We are not judging anyone. The Word of God has already done that.


I agree. To me its very unfair and annoying when people accuse me of judging someone. We absolutely HAVE to read the Word of God and decide between right and wrong and its not right to try to intimidate someone into backing down from the truth for fear of having everything view them as somehow being cold hearted or judging anyone.

Im always trying to find out what I AM SUPPOSED TO BE DOING... not looking to judge anyone else.

And I'll be darned if Im going to deceive myself just so that I can have an easy time as a Christian.

Claudia
 

Claudia_T

New Member
I have to say that I was just now reading the thing about Daniel and the fiery furnace.

I dont see that as the same as the 911 burning building thing.

The reason is because Daniel was witnessing for God.

In the 911 thing you were going to be killed anyway. and it wasnt any kind of "standing up for God" type thing either.

I think it is silly to use that but then again I havent read through all of the posts here... so maybe Im missing something
 

rbell

Active Member
Claudia,

Does that mean that you're judging that I'm judging that you're judging?
How judgemental!

:tongue3: :laugh:

Anyway...back to the fight..er, discussion:
 

Lagardo

New Member
Claudia_T said:
I agree. To me its very unfair and annoying when people accuse me of judging someone. We absolutely HAVE to read the Word of God and decide between right and wrong and its not right to try to intimidate someone into backing down from the truth for fear of having everything view them as somehow being cold hearted or judging anyone.

Im always trying to find out what I AM SUPPOSED TO BE DOING... not looking to judge anyone else.

And I'll be darned if Im going to deceive myself just so that I can have an easy time as a Christian.

Claudia

And it is unfair to label others as decieving themselves to have an easy time as a Christian.

In this, and other threads, SFIC has advocated a false doctrine that a Christian never sins. That is not a stance against "an easy time as a Christian" but a false, works based salvation.
 

Claudia_T

New Member
Lagardo said:
And it is unfair to label others as decieving themselves to have an easy time as a Christian.

In this, and other threads, SFIC has advocated a false doctrine that a Christian never sins. That is not a stance against "an easy time as a Christian" but a false, works based salvation.



Im not labeling anyone Im talking about myself...

actually though in a way you are right, I DO view lots of people in here as just trying to weasel their way around the Word of God..

Ive gotta admit that. sorry.

Claudia
 

rbell

Active Member
Claudia_T said:
Im actually starting to like all of you though, which is scary.

Don't worry...one of us will open our mouth and all will be back to normal... :laugh: :laugh:
 

Claudia_T

New Member
ok we need to get back to argueing now, but I forgot where we left off..

sorry about that..

one... two... three... GO!
 
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