What about Rom 10:9-10 ?

[savedbymercy]

Believing is a Work, something a man does !

Yes Believing is a Work !



We know that believing is a work by Jesus statement here Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Now think about it, what are the works of Abraham they would do if they were Abraham's real children ? The works of Abraham that would constitute them and manifest them the True Children of Abraham, is believing on Christ or Faith Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Now this statement by Christ in Jn 8:39, makes it quite clear, that He equates or regards Faith and or Believing as Works !

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes Believing is a Work !

Don't you ever learn anything? Believing is the human side of the divine act of drawing. If God draws something it comes. Who is doing the work? The One drawing or the one being drawn? The active versus passive voice in that last sentence should give you a clue! God is! What is God's work called in scripture in regard to salvation? Answer - Grace! What is grace contrasted with? Works!

Formerly you admitted that God did the work but you simply cannot grasp that God's Work in redemption is called "grace" can you? Election is God's Work to but we choose Him because he chose us. Predestination is a work of God to!

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Don't you ever learn anything?

Yes, I learned that Jesus equates Believing as a Work !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Yes, I learned that Jesus equates Believing as a Work !

But did you learn WHOSE work it is from John 6:44-45; 64-65????

If it is God's word than that is called "grace" and Faith is explicitly stated to be "by grace" - Rom. 4:16

 

[The Biblicist]

But did you learn WHOSE work it is from John 6:44-45; 64-65????

If it is God's word than that is called "grace" and Faith is explicitly stated to be "by grace" - Rom. 4:16

I don't believe there are too many who really grasp John 3:1-20 and its real significance. John 3:1-13 deals with what only God can do - regenerate sinners. John 3:14-17 deals with gospel conversion. However, John 3:18-20 is the Lord's conclusion where he brings the two together in synthesis as a cause and effect relationship:

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Repentance is the CHANGE from loving darkness to hating darkness and from hating the light to loving the light.

Faith is the consequence of that CHANGE from darkness to light manifested by coming to the light.

Regeneration is all of this being "wrought by (Gr. en) God". This is the simple truth in regard to the relationship between regeneration and coversion. There is no such thing as a unregenerated believer any more there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever as both are completely impossible.

 

[savedbymercy]

But did you learn WHOSE work it is from John 6:44-45; 64-65????

If it is God's word than that is called "grace" and Faith is explicitly stated to be "by grace" - Rom. 4:16

Yes, I learned that Jesus equates Believing as a Work ! and

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, I learned that Jesus equates Believing as a Work ! and

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

You sir are a heretic and preach another gospel than the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[savedbymercy]

You sir are a heretic and preach another gospel than the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

 

[The Biblicist]

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

I perfectly understood what you said and so the highlight is completely unncessary.

You are ignorant of the Doctrine of grace. You cannot distinguish between the LEGAL BASIS for our justification (the atonement of Christ) and the LEGAL APPLICATION for our justification accomplished through regenerative faith in Jesus Christ! Hence, you pervert both and that means you preach "another gospel."

Your system of doctrine usurps the covenant work of the Holy Spirit by attributing it to the convenant work of Jesus Christ. You can't distinguish between God's PURPOSE before the world began versus God's EXECUTION of that purpose in time (Isa. 46:11). Hence, your heretical system of doctrine invents a polythesism wherein the Eternal Word is in ACTUAL LITERAL spiritual union (thus an eternal and inseparable part of God's very nature) with His elect, thus making them spiritually eternal as God is eternal and inseparable from the Divine nature thus making them God. You teach absolute heresy.

Actual literal spiritual union between Christ and His elect occurs at regeneration and not before. Legal union occurs at justifiation by faith and not before. What occurs before is PURPOSED regeneration, justification, glorification and that is ALL!

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

I perfectly understood what you said and so the highlight is completely unncessary.

Well you have not dealt with it, and you teach salvation by works:

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Well you have not dealt with it, and you teach salvation by works:

Now, understand this, if one says they are Justified or Saved before God, on the basis of their Faith or believing, then they are witnessing to Salvation and or Justification before God by Works, which is contrary to scripture and even Abraham's own Justification before God Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 4:1-2

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham was Justified by his act of believing, then he could boast or glory, but not before God !

Try reading the next verse (v. 3)! As verse 3 is placed in direct contrast to works in verses 1-2. By cutting off the text at verse 2 and then making your rediculous conclusion you are making the text say exactly the very opposite of what it would say if you included verse 3. Try to deal with scripture honestly as you are totally dishonest in how you are handling this passage.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Try reading the next verse (v. 3)!

I have read vs 3 before, nevertheless, believing is a work and you with many others teach that Justification before God is conditioned upon one believing, which is Justification by works. That contradicts Paul's whole point that Abraham was not Justified by works before God !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



I have read vs 3 before, nevertheless, believing is a work and you with many others teach that Justification before God is conditioned upon one believing, which is Justification by works. That contradicts Paul's whole point that Abraham was not Justified by works before God !

Either you are incapable of understanding what you are reading or you simply don't care what the Scripture says as you continue to spue out exactly the very opposite of what Romans 4:1-5 says. Your mind is in the grip of another spirit and it is not the Holy Spirit.

 

[savedbymercy]

Either you are incapable of understanding what you are reading or you simply don't care what the Scripture says as you continue to spue out exactly the very opposite of what Romans 4:1-5 says. Your mind is in the grip of another spirit and it is not the Holy Spirit.

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ? What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

 

[DHK]

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ? What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
All those who are truly God's children:
1. are children by faith,
2. do good works because they are children by faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ?

He says it is God's work and he proves this in John 6:36-40; 44-45; 64-65. No man can "come" (believe) unless God does the work of drawing.

God's work in regard to redemption is defined in scripture as GRACE. That is why "the promise" to be "heirs" of the world is "OF faith" (Rom. 4:16) that it might be "BY grace."

The term "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 is by the immediate preceding (Eph. 2:1,5) and foregoing context to refer to quickening/regeneration (Eph. 2:10a). Regeneration is presented as a completed action in the past that stands complete right to the present by the perfect periphrastic construct in Ephesians 2:8a. This is a "saved....through faith" which means faith is inseparably connected with regeneration. If you were saved/regenerated as a completed action at a point in the past and it was "through faith" then faith had to occur at the same point of completed action or it is not "through faith."

You completely distorted Romans 4:1-2 by your conclusion. In Romans 4:3 Paul pits faith in direct contrast/contradiction with "works." However, your conclusion forces his words to mean that faith is works. Your conclusion is so outrageously a perversion of this text that I wonder how if you even have a conscience.




What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.[/QUOTE]

 

[savedbymercy]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
All those who are truly God's children:
1. are children by faith,
2. do good works because they are children by faith.

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ? What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

 

[savedbymercy]

He says it is God's work and he proves this in John 6:36-40; 44-45; 64-65. No man can "come" (believe) unless God does the work of drawing.

God's work in regard to redemption is defined in scripture as GRACE. That is why "the promise" to be "heirs" of the world is "OF faith" (Rom. 4:16) that it might be "BY grace."

The term "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 is by the immediate preceding (Eph. 2:1,5) and foregoing context to refer to quickening/regeneration (Eph. 2:10a). Regeneration is presented as a completed action in the past that stands complete right to the present by the perfect periphrastic construct in Ephesians 2:8a. This is a "saved....through faith" which means faith is inseparably connected with regeneration. If you were saved/regenerated as a completed action at a point in the past and it was "through faith" then faith had to occur at the same point of completed action or it is not "through faith."

You completely distorted Romans 4:1-2 by your conclusion. In Romans 4:3 Paul pits faith in direct contrast/contradiction with "works." However, your conclusion forces his words to mean that faith is works. Your conclusion is so outrageously a perversion of this text that I wonder how if you even have a conscience.




What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ? What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you understand that Jesus indicates that believing or Faith is a Work ?

That question has been fully answered and your inability to overthrow what I said is noted because all you do is reassert your post while running as fast as you can from providing any substantive response to the evidence I provided. That kind of response demonstrates your inability to deal with the evidence provided.

What does Jesus mean Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

If they were children of Abraham according to the Spirit then his "good works" would be the consequence. Paul says the same thing in Ephesians 2:10. If one is created in Christ = regenerated then what FOLLOWS is "good works."

However, note that "through faith" in connection with regeneration in Ephesians 2:8-9 is placed in contrast to works. The work of God or being created in Christ is inclusive of "through faith" as the perfect tense paraphrastic construct modified by the prepositional phrase "through faith" proves in verse 8.

The perfect tense proves that regeneration/quickening/saved in verse 8 (first defined as "quickened" in verse 1 and then "quickend" = "saved by grace" in verse 5) was a completed action in the past which stands completed to the present. That completed action in the past was completed "through faith" or "by grace are ye saved through faith."

The

 

[The Biblicist]

That question has been fully answered and your inability to overthrow what I said is noted because all you do is reassert your post while running as fast as you can from providing any substantive response to the evidence I provided. That kind of response demonstrates your inability to deal with the evidence provided.





If they were children of Abraham according to the Spirit then his "good works" would be the consequence. Paul says the same thing in Ephesians 2:10. If one is created in Christ = regenerated then what FOLLOWS is "good works."

However, note that "through faith" in connection with regeneration in Ephesians 2:8-9 is placed in contrast to works. The work of God or being created in Christ is inclusive of "through faith" as the perfect tense paraphrastic construct modified by the prepositional phrase "through faith" proves in verse 8.

The perfect tense proves that regeneration/quickening/saved in verse 8 (first defined as "quickened" in verse 1 and then "quickend" = "saved by grace" in verse 5) was a completed action in the past which stands completed to the present. That completed action in the past was completed "through faith" or "by grace are ye saved through faith."

The

Note the progression of explanation of divine quickening in Ephesians 2:

Eph. 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus


quickened (v1) = quickened (v. 5a) = for by grace ye are saved (v. 5b) = "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (v.8a) = "not of yourselves it is a gift of God (v. 8b) = His workmanship created in Christ Jesus" (v. 10a).