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What Are Your Thoughts on Apparent Age
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Except if you don't believe the sun was created on day 4 you don't.
37818
Well-Known Member
We identify the two lights as the Sun and Moon. It does not say God made the Sun and Moon on that day, rather, it says He made two lights on that day. Furthermore, the night and stars where already there, ". . . the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also." Now I logically deduce the Sun was the light of Earth's first day. Unless you suppose on the first day the light God let be was a temporary trifle until God got around to make the Sun on the fourth day.
I go with the temporary trifle. You're trying to fix something that really isn't a problem.
37818
Well-Known Member
My first study Bible has a note for "made" in v.16, " The word does not imply a creative act; vs.14-18 are declarative of function merely." In other words, the Sun and Moon are only said to be made lights, that is, became visible on the 6th day. The text here does not speak of their creation.
Our local Milky Way Galaxy has been measured to be some 150,000 light years across. The Andromada Galaxy some 2.5 million light years away. And we see the stars from them now. Besides galaxies billions of light uears away. That makes the Heavens and the Earth (Genesis 1:1) older than when those 6 earth days of Genesis 1 took place. To say otherwise is irrational. And such thinking keeps others for even hearing the gospel. If that is what you wish to do.
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This thread is about apparent age, though. That the universe seems old due to starlight distances but is only thousands of years old.
God allowed man to discover the speeda light. He allowed man to discover that nothing natural can go faster, but that light can be slowed down. (Man has slowed light down to some 38 MPH in a special transparent gel, but when it emerges from that gel it instantly resumes its normal 186 K MPS speed. Science doesn't know why, except that no energy use or generation is involved.)
God has allowed man to calculate the approximate distances to many stars & interstellar objects. Since the numbers in miles are so great, that distance is often expressed in light-years, the distance light travels in one year at full speed. The PARSEC, equaling about 3.26 light years, is used to express the distances to very far objects, to keep the numbers manageable.
The distances are calculated by taking precise measurements of a star's location in the sky exactly 6 months apart & calculating that star's apparent movement due to its being observed from opposite sides of earth's orbit around the sun. Measurements to very-distant objects are only approximate because it doesn't account for that object's own movement, nor that of the solar system around the Milky Way's core. (This method is useful only for stars"above" or "below" the circumference of earth's solar orbit.) One such object is the Andromeda Galaxy, the farthest object we can see with the naked eye.
It's best-seen right now, located a little below the "feet" of Cassiopeia, an easily-found constellation high in the sky about midnight, & just-above the Andromeda constellation. It's roughly about 2.5 million light years away. Thus, we're seeing 2.5 million-year-old light when we see it!
God didn't allow us to discover these facts to deceive nor confuse us, but to EDUCATE us. And genesis 1 says God's spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP, which shows He was preparing to re-arrange an already-existing earth.
There's no doubt that fossils are very old. They weren't formed overnight & encased in non-igneous rock rapidly. And the Appalachian Mountains, once the size of the Rockies, didn't erode down overnight, either. Again, God has allowed us to discover these things to EDUCATE us.
God has allowed man to calculate the approximate distances to many stars & interstellar objects. Since the numbers in miles are so great, that distance is often expressed in light-years, the distance light travels in one year at full speed. The PARSEC, equaling about 3.26 light years, is used to express the distances to very far objects, to keep the numbers manageable.
The distances are calculated by taking precise measurements of a star's location in the sky exactly 6 months apart & calculating that star's apparent movement due to its being observed from opposite sides of earth's orbit around the sun. Measurements to very-distant objects are only approximate because it doesn't account for that object's own movement, nor that of the solar system around the Milky Way's core. (This method is useful only for stars"above" or "below" the circumference of earth's solar orbit.) One such object is the Andromeda Galaxy, the farthest object we can see with the naked eye.
It's best-seen right now, located a little below the "feet" of Cassiopeia, an easily-found constellation high in the sky about midnight, & just-above the Andromeda constellation. It's roughly about 2.5 million light years away. Thus, we're seeing 2.5 million-year-old light when we see it!
God didn't allow us to discover these facts to deceive nor confuse us, but to EDUCATE us. And genesis 1 says God's spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP, which shows He was preparing to re-arrange an already-existing earth.
There's no doubt that fossils are very old. They weren't formed overnight & encased in non-igneous rock rapidly. And the Appalachian Mountains, once the size of the Rockies, didn't erode down overnight, either. Again, God has allowed us to discover these things to EDUCATE us.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
SY, your OP is worded your way, but erroneously, and as such you should expect a little pushback. The Bible does not outright say, "The earth is [only] thousands of years old," rather you have to interpret it in order to create such a statement.
You should not be so surprised that you get reactions, as many people have very strongly held opinions regarding this. Perhaps you hold your own more loosely?
In any case, you might ought to ask yourself why you are so eager to attribute to the Bible a statement it does not make instead of stating that your own study has led you to your opinion.
The context suggests an order of events, with the creation of the sun after the creation of light. It takes 8 minutes, not several days, for the light from the sun to reach the Earth. And, there was no observer on the Earth to make relevant your statement "became visible".
The Big Bang theory asserts that the universe expanded from the size of something smaller than a pea to tens of billions of light years across, in a split second. I think the complication you see in a straight forward reading of Genesis 1 is relatively small.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
This should not be treated as a salvation issue. I've not encountered OECs who treat it as such. In my experience, it's been certain YECs doing so. However, the deception perception can be a real deal breaker in accepting your interpretation. It doesn't mean you see it that way, though.
I admit that I disdain the practice of generally denying intelligent design, as it implies God is not intelligent or did not design the universe. In other words, such a position sounds utterly contrary to the Bible, and has done much damage to its influence in our society, as well as to the progress of true science in general.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
OK, then "the universe appears to be expanding" in a most finely-tuned manner. But in your haste to caricature "Big Bang" theory you indict the Bible, for the Bible also indicates that "at one time there was no universe." And this is where the problem lies—ignoring important points of agreement. The historical context is important, as you well know, and brings the Creator front and center.
For a couple hundred years prior to Hubble's discovery of an expanding universe, unbelieving scientists generally held to an infinite universe that needed no Creator, especially according to some philosophical musings not their own. With the new discovery and its implication of a beginning (genesis) and thus a Beginner, many were upset, because it sounded way too biblical (Genesis). Hoyle derisively coined the term "Big Bang" to counter the new trend to question atheism and look to the Bible.
There were many early attempts to counter the singly expanding universe, but each bit the dust. Of course unbelievers still grasp at ways to exclude God, but they have been forced into more and more absurd alternatives. They have to resort to science-fiction, redefine words, even disdain philosophy as they ignorantly philosophize, hoping their credentials as scientists will prevent people from noticing their naked state.
They do not embrace "Big Bang" theory as such, but rather seek to distort it unscientifically to fit their non-Christian, anti-God worldviews. Many of the more open-minded have become Christians, in part because of the implications of the expanding universe.
BenWest
Member
That view does not agree with what is actually written. Jesus has preeminence or FIRST place in everything. Jesus IS the Light of the First Day. He's the first and the last in all things.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church: Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things He might have the preeminence.
Adam's world had no rain until the flood began. Amen?
You are being respectful, thank you. Your one of only two OECs to show up, both recently. I was beginning to think the average Baptist position was almost entirely YEC. The problem for me is that some people made this a life or death issue for some reason. I believe in apparent age due to the fourth day, but I can at least understand your interpretation.
BenWest
Member
The Sun and Moon are obviously made to give light upon the Earth. There are NO others.
Adam's world, which God called Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:8
The present world or 2nd Heaven was not made until the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4
God made the 1st Heaven on the 2nd Day and Lord God, His Son, made other HeavenS, (2nd & 3rd) on the 3rd Day according to Genesis 2:4. God (Hebrew-Elohim) is the PLURAL name of the invisible Spirit of the Trinity. LORD God (Hebrew-YHWH) is the SINGULAR name of Jesus, God's Son, in the Old Testament.
The present 2nd Heaven is NOT Adam's Heaven, since that world (Greek-Kosmos) was totally and completely destroyed in the flood. 2 Peter 3:6 That's God's Truth Scripturally. God's Truth is the Truth in every way. Amen?
BenWest
Member
Scripture shows that the present cosmos was NOT made until the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4
Scripture correctly shows scientifically, that the FIRST Stars appeared on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16
Science has recently discovered the SAME. In fact, it was 180 Million years AFTER the Big Bang until the FIRST Stars lit up. It's testable proof of the Literal God. His name is Jesus.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com › news › 2018/02 › first-stars-univers...Feb 28, 2018 -
God's Truth agrees in every way with every other discovered Truth. Amen?
BenWest
Member
Sorry, but Genesis 1:2 shows us that the "earth", which God made in the beginning, was "without form and void or empty". It had not yet been formed or shaped since there was NO God with Hands until the FIRST Day when Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God. He is the ONLY God ever formed or that ever will be formed, physically. Jesus IS LORD.
37818
Well-Known Member
Makes God a liar. Not only an appearent past but a false history.
No it doesnt. Dumb argument
BenWest
Member
Can you show it wrong from Scripture? I can show that Genesis could not be understood until recent discoveries of man confirmed the scientific facts written therein. It's proof of God and ONLY the people of the last days before Jesus returns, can possibly understand it. Scripture is NOT dumb. It clearly shows where our Universe came from and even what Day He caused it.
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