• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

This is a totally wrong. I'm done with you. I will not interact with you anymore, and am putting you on ignore. You keep lying about me. I DO NOT see the filling of the Holy Spirit as a "sign" that God is calling me into the ministry. I NEVER SAID that, and don't believe it, and you are dishonest to say that I did.

It's not worth the effort to debate someone who continually prevaricates about me.

Then the way you "prevaricate", has you speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You claim you never said that and yet you proclaim it by referring to that filling of the Holy Spirit as some sign for preaching boldly the gospel for what you seem to base your calling into the ministry by without actually referring to it directly.

So how can you know you had a filling of the Holy Spirit that you claim is God calling you into the ministry unless you felt a spirit coming over you later in life as a saved believer? It has to be a notable phenomenon like Joyce Meyers and my former neighbor across the street only they had this sensation of that "filling" as coming with tongues, whereas yours, which is implied, did not.

And yet you seem to think there is necessity for this filling of the Holy Spirit to boldly preach the gospel hence in order to go into the ministry.

If it be your desire to serve the Lord Jesus Christ rather than your pride and all your work based on that pride, you would seek to clarify your position or for Him to use you to minister to me, but instead, you just throw out accusations without quoting me whereas I have been quoting you from which you "prevaricated" enough for me to post as I did.

You also seem to think apostate means they were never saved nor of the faith in Jesus Christ which you are wrong also because you cannot be cut off from the vine, unless you were part of the vine by faith in Jesus Christ. You cannot fall away from the faith unless you were of the faith. You cannot void faith by engaging foolishly the deeds of the law unless you had faith to void it to begin with. So just because you are involved in a false teaching(s) which speaks the same words and language as those in apostasy, it does not mean you were never saved OR that you never had faith to begin with as you seem to believe apostate means.

It just means you are at risk of being excommunicated from the Marriage Supper even though you are still part of that kingdom of Heaven if you will note how the 5 foolish virgins were of the ten that ARE the kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 25:1 but He knew them not Matthew 25:12 ( and it was because they were being in iniquity of being out to the market seeking to be filled with extra oil ) when you compare about Him not knowing them with workers of iniquity in Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30.

Since the 5 that were ready for why they were not out to the market to seek to be filled with extra oil, as they were filled since salvation for why they were in that kingdom of Heaven in the first place, then the foolish being out to the market seeking extra oil in a work that denies Him for how they are in that kingdom of Heaven is why and how He did not know them, even though they were still in that kingdom of Heaven but missed out on the Wedding Reception with the Bridegroom.

So yeah... by the grace of God and His help, I oppose applying Ephesians 5:18 as if that is a command to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit when that is just an exhortation to stay sober as be filled with the Holy Spirit by avoiding getting drunk with wine with excess.
 
@ChristB4Us,
John 20:22 is a post resurrection pre ascension event. It is generally believed Jesus breaths the Holy Spirit on His Apostles.

Because it is pre ascension event and Jesus was still present with them, they were not receiving the Holy spirit as that Comforter yet. The condition for sending the Comforter was when Jesus was no longer with them thus sent by the Father.

Jesus starts off talking about His going to the Father one day to prepare a place for His disciples and that is when the promise of the forever indwelling holy Spirit will be sent to start His role as the Comforter.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The three views.
1) The eternal giving of the Comforter to His church.
2) For the command to receive the Comforter which occurs on Pentecost.

The Church began at Pentecost when His disciples were Biblically born again of the Spirit when Jesus was no longer present with them.

3) A temporary giving of the Holy Spirit . . .(Please explain . . .)

Under the Old Covenant, it was possible for Old Testament saints to lose the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Judas Iscariot had that temporary infilling of the Holy Ghost in Mattew 10th chapter and yet the prophesy was fulfilled that he was to be lost.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So the event in Matthew 10th chapter and the one in John 20:22 was not Jesus giving the Holy Spirit as the Comforter at their salvation when that promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost was not to be given until Jesus had ascended to the Father and was no longer physically present with them.

Since Pentecost, no saved believer can lose the Holy Ghost per Ephesians 4:30 even if they become a former believer & get denied by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event to be left behind, for He is faithful for He still abides in those former believers left behind see verse 13. 2 Timothy 2:11-13
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Judas Iscariot had that temporary infilling of the Holy Ghost in Mattew 10th chapter and yet the prophesy was fulfilled that he was to be lost.
Judas Iscariot had that temporary infilling of the Holy Ghost in Mattew 10th chapter and yet the prophesy was fulfilled that he was to be lost.
How do you get that in Matthew 10?

John 6:70, Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
 
How do you get that in Matthew 10?

Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

John 6:70, Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Yeah, He said that, but look at what He said as having chosen you twelve but one of them i a devil?

That is why the Holy Spirit that Jesus had given then in Matthew 10th chapter & John 20:22 was only a temporary indwelling seeing how He was physically present with them since the condition for the permanent forever indwelling Holy Ghost was to be sent by the Father when Jesus was no longer physically present with them per John 14:25-26 but has ascended to the Father.
 

yc205

New Member
I would like to believe that we're all just having fun here with water guns and not actually friendly firing with intent to kill. lol
 

37818

Well-Known Member
For some, taking some issues as serious, is too serious. It is just sometimes goes that way.
 
I would like to believe that we're all just having fun here with water guns and not actually friendly firing with intent to kill. lol

There's some that take themselves and this site way too seriously.

For some, taking some issues as serious, is too serious. It is just sometimes goes that way.

And yet this forum goes through the trouble of dividing Baptists from other Christians.

Meanwhile a Baptist member goes around acting as if he has authority to tell someone that they are not really a Baptist just because I do not believe baptism by immersion is a specific commandment that all Baptists must do to be a Baptist when Paul testified that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation in 1 Corinthians 1:17-21 for why that issue should be moot to Baptists.

Having left the Presbyterian church as a member a long time ago, I have been searching and thus I had thought I had found the Baptist church that was not affiliated with Protestants as coming out of the Catholic Church as being an independent fundamentalist church that grew apart from the RCC as with the early churches of the N.T., but nope. It no longer exists as they are not all speaking the same thing.

And because of certain creeds, they worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as well as the Trinity and so evidence of unbiblical outside influence is why that church is not the same as the early church of the N.T. and so I stopped being identified as a Baptist and just wish to follow Jesus in testifying of Him in seeking His glory than be identified with a church that I had thought, was existing as outside of the sphere of RCC's influences but nope. The creeds is proof of that.

So I trust the Lord Jesus Christ to help me be a better witness of Him and just identifying myself as a non-Baptist Christian seems to be the best course to take here in this forum.
 

ParticularWife

Active Member
Out of all the denominations, being a former Covenant United Presbyterian Church member, I would think I would identify as a Baptist, but then again, there has been differing theologies within the Baptist denomination and they do not all agree with each other...
I’d like to offer a response to the OP, though I see there are already several replies. This topic has been on my mind.

I’ve been part of the PCA/OPC my entire life, though I’ve visited a range of Reformed churches across various denominations. The term “Baptist” once carried a more specific meaning than it often does today. While distinct from the Anabaptists—who were more radical in certain respects—Baptists share some common theological emphases.

What defines a "real Baptist" can depend on whom you ask. One characteristic is the practice of Believer’s Baptism. It also tends to exclude the idea of rebaptism, as Baptists consider baptism to be a once-for-all act for believers.

Many Particular Baptists, in contrast to General Baptists, hold to a Reformed understanding of salvation, emphasizing God’s sovereign grace in election. While water baptism is seen as important for church membership, it’s not considered necessary for salvation itself.
I had come across one Baptist member that was more from the mindset of Pentecostals & Charismatics with emphasis on the Holy Spirit and believing tongues are for private use which I do not agree with when the Holy Spirit in me and scripture would have me focus on the Bridegroom in living my reconciled relationship with God the Father by, so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrist that is in the world that seeks to visits with signs and lying wonders to take my eyes off of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in the assembly or fellowship.
I am a general cessationist. I am uncomfortable with many Pentecostal and charismatic practices, both in worship and elsewhere. But I do believe that many of them are true Christians. Their profession of the gospel and, in some cases, their theology shows this. It depends on the pastor, but I think they are sincere in missions and faith. I just believe they are wrong in ways that have real consequences.

To be honest, I think Methodists often live more upright lives than many Baptists. Yet I strongly disagree with some Methodist teachings. Every group of Christians has its strengths. Every believer does too. But I believe Particular Baptists are right about some key pastoral and theological issues. These are things I wish more people would consider.

Usually I would come across the differing of belief where one insists water baptism is necessary for salvation even though the majority, at least the Baptists I had come across online, says it is not required for salvation but that is what a saved believer does for announcing publicly that they seek to be a follower or a disciples of Jesus Christ of which I can agree with.
Man is saved by grace through faith alone. Water baptism is a command of Christ. Every believer should receive it upon their profession of faith and entrance into the church. It is wrong to neglect it. Yet if you have not done so, repent and obey. God forgives all who repent and believe His Word.
Baptism does not save. Faith in Christ alone saves. Without faith, no one can escape condemnation. With faith, all sins are pardoned.
Then I saw someone on here proclaiming that he is not a strict Calvinist which I assume is to declare his stance as a former Baptist member of the forum that has now returned to the forum.
Calvinism significantly influenced early Baptist theology. Keach and Collins, key figures in Baptist confessions, drew heavily from Reformed theology. They affirm God's sovereignty in salvation and the regulative principle of worship. While Particular Baptists differed from Presbyterians on church governance and baptism, their theology was shaped by Reformation Calvinism.
Baptist history is diverse. General Baptists, though not Calvinistic, have a long history. Some Baptist churches, perhaps unknowingly, incorporate elements from other traditions, including Calvinism.
I am a Calvinist and largely Reformed in theology, aligning with the OPC. I also affirm Strict and Particular Baptist positions on church governance and baptism. I believe creedal Presbyterians are true Christians, despite disagreements on some issues. I attend an OPC church, where my Baptist convictions are known and respected.
Infant baptism is a disagreement, but not one that warrants fellowship separation.
I have other disagreements with General Baptists and Pentecostals. Many are saved by God's grace despite incorrect soteriology. Salvation does not depend on perfect theology, though doctrinal errors can hinder. Those who do not faithfully preach the gospel are not truly evangelizing.
As a Calvinist, I believe in the church's duty to proclaim God's Word to all nations. The gospel is God's power for salvation, and God's will prevails despite human inadequacies. If Baptists who reject Calvinism but affirm the Nicene Creed and preach repentance are willing to tolerate my high Calvinist convictions, I gladly fellowship with them. I would not deny them communion, even though the OPC would restrict it. God's kingdom transcends our divisions, and His purposes are fulfilled despite our imperfections.
Let the Word go forth, for God saves, not man.
I am of that belief that I should not be identified as a follower of Calvin or to preach Calvinism since scriptures does speak against that but to identify as a follower or as a disciple of Jesus Christ.
I wouldn’t say I’m exactly a follower of Calvin. I see him as making an intelligent and significant contribution to theology and pastoral practice. I don’t agree with him on everything (he was basically a proto-Presbyterian, after all), but I think the level of hostility some people have toward him is strange. Not saying this about you, but Calvin Derangement Syndrome (CDS) is definitely a thing.
So I guess my question is... can someone that identifies as a Baptist has to agree with Calvinism here to post in the Baptists only sections of the forum or what is it that qualifies a Christian as a Baptist other than being a Christian that follows Jesus Christ by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to do that?
While there are foundational beliefs within Calvinism that even General Baptists acknowledge, it’s clear that Calvinist soteriology remains a significant minority among Baptist congregations. You don’t have to subscribe to Calvinism to be a Christian or a Baptist—I'll never argue that point. However, I firmly believe Calvinist doctrine provides a robust framework for understanding Scripture and the nature of God’s sovereignty. Frankly, Calvin would have found a welcoming home within Baptist theology, considering his relentless commitment to biblical fidelity and the doctrines of grace.
I find it disturbing that the forum separates Christians from Baptists when Christians that are abiding in Him speaking the same thing and holding to the same judgment are of that one body of Christ, but then again, I have found that not all Baptists are doing the same thing and so why bother with "Baptist's Only" stuff?
Denominational boundaries hold significant weight, with real-world implications. Keeping discussions within designated areas helps maintain focus for Baptists and reduces contention. You can, I would assume, address the same topics in the general forums—Baptist beliefs are fair game there as well. However, respect for these boundaries fosters more meaningful and respectful conversations within our respective communities.
1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
To take my own side in this same discussion: Presbyterians and those general Baptists, they ain't schismatics. They just got some pretty strong differences when it comes to how they do church, like communion. Makes it tough to really be one administration, at least for now. And this here internet forum, there are plenty of other places online where folks from all kinds of churches can hang out and talk.
I can understand separating Catholics or various non-Baptist members that preach a denominational theology that the majority of Baptists do not ascribe to nor practice, but I am not sure why you would limit those that just call themselves Christians as separate from Baptists when Baptists are Christians?
Many non denominational churches are actually Baptists. But if they're not, there are issues of theology and church government that require separate administration.
Or am I ignorant of some certain aspect of Baptist theology that requires Christians to be Baptists?
Christians should be Baptists, it's regular conduct for a church, but I'm not going to consider people heretics or schismatics just because they're not Baptist.
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Christians should be Baptists, it's regular conduct for a church, but I'm not going to consider people heretics or schismatics just because they're not Baptist.
Say what? What sort of Baptist ARE you, not to condemn EVERYONE who doesn't think exactly like you and curse them to eternal perdition?
:) :) :)

(Seriously, appreciate your thoughts. And on the BB, we do not allow questioning of salvation, labeling as a "cult" or calling someone a "hairy tick" as a matter of policy. It has gotten many warnings and few "former" members looking in from outside. Earnestly contending for the faith means carrying a sword, but NOT sticking in your brother's back)
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
am I ignorant of some certain aspect of Baptist theology that requires Christians to be Baptists?
The 'marks' or characteristics listed in the body of this article gives you gold in your lap.


By Curtis Pugh

"In the New Testament we find certain characteristics or marks that are essential to all churches of the New Testament kind.

"A New Testament kind of church is the kind Jesus started.

"It is the kind He promised a continual existence.

"It is the kind He is pleased with today.

"It is His church.

"We believe it is the only kind of church that is acceptable to God.

"If we would find churches of the New Testament kind, we must look for those essential marks or characteristics which we find in the New Testament. Others have done this and some have left helpful information behind.

"For instance, some years ago a Southern Baptist Convention pastor, J.M Carroll, presented lectures in different places in the United States on the subject of Baptist history. His lectures were extremely popular among the Baptists, many of whom were ignorant of their own history.

"After his death his lecture notes were put in book form. We quote from the introduction to Bro. Carroll’s little book, THE TRAIL OF BLOOD. In the introduction to THE TRAIL OF BLOOD, Baptist pastor Clarence Walker wrote:

“In any town there are many different churches -- all claiming to be the true church.

"Dr. Carroll did as you can do now -- take the marks, or teachings, of the different churches and find the ones which have these marks, or doctrines.

"The ones which have these marks, or doctrines, taught in God's Word, are the true churches.”
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
The ones which have these marks, or doctrines, taught in God's Word, are the true churches.”

Another list, which would include having The Bible as their only RULE,
for Faith and Practice, etc., if it was intended to be a complete list,
instead of some very highly regarded 'salient principles', etc.

Salient Principles of New Testament Ecclesiology
by Willard Ramsey and William Hawkins.

1. The Church is a localized body of believers

1) having been immersed in water upon a voluntary profession of faith (Acts 2:41); and

2) having been constituted an autonomous body (Acts 11:22-26; 13:2-4; 14:22, 23). Both these acts must have been done under the authority of an agency authorized by God to "bind and loose" on earth (Matthew 16:19, 18:18).

2. The Church is comprised only of a membership professing to be regenerate (Acts 2:41, 47).

3. Each local Church, under the headship of Christ only, is autonomous on earth as a "binding and loosing" agency (Matthew 16:19, 18:18).

4. The Church as an institution has been and will continue to be comprised of a perpetual succession of local Churches on earth never to perish or apostatize (Matthew 16:18; Ephesians 3:10, 11, 21).

5. Each Church must maintain its own moral and doctrinal purity and separation from the world by the faithful and impartial application of biblical disciplinary measures at the local level (Matthew 18:13-17; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13; Revelation 2:15,20).

6. The Church never baptizes infants but believers only (Acts 2:41) by immersion only (Romans 6:4, 5; Colossians 2:12).

7. The Church never acknowledges any other institution, movement, or individual to have authority from God to baptize in His name. Hence they baptize all converts coming to them from other institutions.

8. The Church has never used physical persecution to coerce the conscience of any.

9. The Church has never formed an alliance with the powers of any state.

10. The Church has never had a centralized, heirarchical or espiscopal form of government or a graduated (tiered) clergy; it is rather a theocracy executed through democratic processes at the local level (Matthew 18:18; Acts 1:23-26; 6:3-6; 1 Corinthians 5:4, 5, 12; II Corinthians 2:6, 7).
 
Top