What or who is predestinated?

[Dale-c]

Dale, there is no need to respond to you.

Yeah, that is what I thought myself. I don't know why you keep doing it.

Making stupid unfounded claims.

I don't even know Jarthur. I do happen to agree with him in this area of doctrine, but as for your pathetic accusation that I blindly follow him, you don't know what you are talking about.

Please Quit derailling the thread.

Thanks,

Dale

 

[saturneptune]

Last time I checked, I wasnt a fool. Actually, that is quite a word to call someone in light of Scripture. Not agreeing with you does not make one a fool.

 

[Jarthur001]

Here is a idea. Lets look at the Bible and see what it says...


He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

[ The Parable of the Weeds ] Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

[ The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast ] He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.

He told them still another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount [ Greek three satas (probably about 1/2 bushel or 22 liters)] of flour until it worked all through the dough."

[ The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl ] "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

[ The Parable of the Net ] "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish

He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old."


WOW...now there is no need to guess what its meaning is. It tells us.

 

[Dale-c]

Not agreeing with you does not make one a fool.

Nope, it doesn't.
So what is your point?

 

[Jarthur001]

Last time I checked, I wasnt a fool. Actually, that is quite a word to call someone in light of Scripture. Not agreeing with you does not make one a fool.

Agreeing with me means nothing. Disagreeing with the Word..does. If you not a fool..stop acting like one. "cat got you tounge"...where are you??" that is childs games saturn.

 

[Jarthur001]

From a few pages back...

Romans 10

13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings of good things!

1) Salvation comes to those that.....
2) Call upon the name of the Lord. But they must 1st...
3) Believe/ have faith in the Lord before they can call. But one must 1st....
4) Hear and understand the Gospel. But how can they...unless one..
5) Proclaims/Preach the Gospel to them...But how can they preach unless the preacher be....
6) Sent?

Send the preacher that has the Holy Spirit living in him...let Him Preach the Gospel to those that do not believe. The preacher need only preach. The preacher can save no one. The gospel goes out..and it is the Holy Spirit that "draws" and then they hear as to understand the gospel. After...and only after they hear/understand does faith come. When one has the understand of God he can then have faith.

In Christ..James

 

[Jarthur001]

More on Romans 10.....a few pages back.

It was asked that I look at verse 20.

20But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Notice...God was found of THEM that did not seek HIM.

This is what is said in Romans 3..No one seeks after God..

Then how did they find him? God CHOOSE to manifest himself. It was His choosing for he elects. Plain as day.

 

[saturneptune]

If you will read Matt 13:18-23, the parable of the sower is clearly explained. Jesus goes on to compare the Kingdom of Heaven to the parables you listed in the following verses. Maybe you should reread Matt 13:13-15.

 

[saturneptune]

Jarthur,
Your last two posts are quite understandable, and in line with Scripture. Why cant you communicate like this all the time?

 

[Jarthur001]

If you will read Matt 13:18-23, the parable of the sower is clearly explained. Jesus goes on to compare the Kingdom of Heaven to the parables you listed in the following verses. Maybe you should reread Matt 13:13-15.

Yes..indeed it is...and it also says nothing about the ground being salvation..does it?

Matt 13....check out the details...

KEY>>>>9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


If you are still not sure of the meaning...check out Luke 11..
11Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

This has nothing to do with this tread. If you want to talk about this...start a tread.

Now...back to the subject.


In Christ...James

 

[Jarthur001]

Jarthur,
Your last two posts are quite understandable, and in line with Scripture. Why cant you communicate like this all the time?

I can not reply the moment you post a reply. I have a family that comes 1st. Also...in the past you have played games..posting bogus links..and calling names. That is to the good of no one Saturn. I do not ask you to agree with me. in Fact....PLEASE do not take my word for it. Check me out. Make sure what I say is from the Word. I tell you what..I will check your words to make sure that are right, when you post. This makes us both stronger. Name calling and games does nothing but waste time.

 

[saturneptune]

Back to the topic of the thread? Really? SO according you YOUR logic, the Word of God has nothing to do with salvation. How can you go back to something you do not understand?

 

[webdog]

James, what's a "tread"? :laugh:

 

[saturneptune]

And by the way, I have a family also, and church minsitry also, and a job also. Its quite funny to me that you have double the posts of mine. And you can add night advanced college courses. But that is neither here nor there. You find the time to do what you want, and it is quite obvious from the length of your posts, quite a bit of time is spent here.

 

[Jarthur001]

Oh Webdog...I'm glad you posted.

I needed to ask one more thing before I reply to you point about 1000 pages back.

you posted you view below...

I hold to the same view on total depravity (spiritual death) as Anthony Badger...

Quote:
Total depravity speaks both of inherited corruption of our nature seminally through our individual fathers, leading to personal sins, and also of the imputed guilt of sin because the entirety of the human race was in Adam sinning. The result is total depravity which may be seen as a separation from the joys of God’s presence, a non-appreciation of His virtues, and an inclination to fall short of His character in our actions. The lostness of the human race, however, does not mean that man acts as badly as he is capable of, that he cannot think logically, that he cannot hear and understand the propositions of the gospel, or that he is unable to believe the truth. Man is rightly considered to be dead in sin, and by nature the child of wrath, but he still retains the image of God in his being. That image seems to carry with it an ability to believe the gospel (appropriate God’s grace channeled through the message of the cross) and, by faith alone, obtain eternal life. While man is unwilling to come to God and/or earn His favor (Jer 17:9-10), he can approach Him by faith (which is not meritorious, but the existence of which admits that there is indeed nothing that man can do to earn His favor). Since man can do that which is according to his nature, and since his nature carries with it an innate ability for self preservation and a desire for same, it follows that man may consider the claims of the gospel and believe the message. Such would be consistent with the desire for self preservation. One may not reasonably argue that since man is inclined to do nothing to glorify God in his fallen state, but act only in a selfish way, his motive to believe is insufficient to attain God’s approval. Man is not saved by his good motives, desire to glorify God, or any other meritorious deed. He is saved when he comprehends the consequences of his desperate fallen condition and, perhaps even selfishly and fearfully, believes in Christ alone as his only hope of eternal life. Believing in this way could by no stretch of imagination be considered meritorious. If anything, it is seen as just the opposite. It is in this context that God’s grace shines for His glory

Being that atonement is kin to this...what is your view of it?


Thanks..

In Christ...James

 

[saturneptune]

By the way, Luke 7:11 says the seeds are the word of God. The response of the four people is represented by the soil. And by the way, if you bothered to read the original post, the question was, how many of these four were saved, it was not if the soil stands for salvation. Read before you type. We used to call that think before you talk.

 

[Jarthur001]

And by the way, I have a family also, and church minsitry also, and a job also. Its quite funny to me that you have double the posts of mine. And you can add night advanced college courses. But that is neither here nor there. You find the time to do what you want, and it is quite obvious from the length of your posts, quite a bit of time is spent here.

I see..you still want to talk about me. I'm glad you have a family. Then you understand I will not drop all to come to one little post. I enjoy posting when I have time. I said a few days ago..I had a lot of work dropped on me...and my posting would slow down. Maybe you forgot i said this. Even if that were not the case...why make a big deal if someone does not reply that day? I mean...who else does that? We all have a life...at least I hope we do. My number of post...yes...they are greater then your own. Not sure what that means. I joined a year ago..when did you join?

Hey..i like to post when I have time. But...i try not let it control me. I do find the time to do what I want. I did not want to post yesterday. I had other things to do....no need to get carried away with it.


Now..lets get back to the subject.

 

[webdog]

Oh Webdog...I'm glad you posted.

I needed to ask one more thing before I reply to you point about 1000 pages back.

you posted you view below...



Being that atonement is kin to this...what is your view of it?


Thanks..

In Christ...James

Besides that it's universal?

 

[Jarthur001]

Besides that it's universal?

yes...what did Christ death mean? What happen on the cross?

 

[webdog]

yes...what did Christ death mean? What happen on the cross?

Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to redeem or pay a sufficient price as payment for human sin and to reconcile (make savable) the world to Himself.