webdog said:
Nobody said they NEEDED to be...but they were. Why if they are a corpse in the first place? What kind of a corpse can be blinded, or have their heart "hardened". They're corpses...right?
bring on the verses..and we shall see.
What needs to be dealt with in regards to the atonement?
Well, if the atonement changed NOTHING in the state of man before salvation, then this is pure pelagius being shot down by nearly every age.
Scripture to support what exactly, we are not to lean on our own understanding (Prov. 3:5), or physically dead people can respond (John 11)? You can't ask for Scripture to support a spiritually dead person responding to Christ...because you cannot provide Scripture that a spiritually dead person CANNOT respond to Christ.
DEAD means dead..and it is on you to show that dead means anything other then dead. What is so funny..God used the STRONGEST word you can use to show the state of man. Yet some say...Oh I'm not that bad. Tell me another word that would place man lower. Dead...is nothing...no response...it gets no lower. If I had the time I would show the greek of each time it is used. In ALL CASES...it means no response.
Drawing is not the same thing as enabling. Drawing is to "entice" or make something desireable or attractive. Enabling means to turn something on. The Bible doesn't use "enable", it uses "draw".
how about didomi {did'-o-mee}
1) to give
2) to give something to someone
a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
1) to bestow a gift
b) to grant, give to one asking, let have
c) to supply, furnish, necessary things
d) to give over, deliver
1) to reach out, extend, present
2) of a writing
3) to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
a) something to be administered
b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
f) to furnish, endue
3) to give
a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one's self
1) to give, hand out lots
b) to appoint to an office
c) to cause to come forth, i.e. as the sea, death and Hell are said to give up the dead who have been engulfed or received by them
c) to give one to someone as his own
1) as an object of his saving care
2) to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master
3) to give one to someone to care for his interests
4) to give one to someone to whom he already belonged, to return
4) to grant or permit one
a) to commission
I don't care what the "many" say, what does the Bible say?
As you have seen...this is what the Bible says.
I know you can go on for days, I've seen some of your marathon posts :laugh:
That's all good and everything, but it doesn't answer the question I asked, nor does it provide the proper Scripture to support man unable to respond to Christ.
Yes..then you know how much I dislike this new layout that limits post to 25000 words.
The no responce...yes this has been shown. You changed a few words to fit your understanding...but het...that's the way it is. If I have time later..i'll give you more verses
IN Christ...James
