What or who is predestinated?

[Dale-c]

Just to continue, we still have our sin nature and still sin as long as we are on this earth. But we are no longer the slaves of sin. We have been set free to serve the risen savior!
Makes me want to sing actualy!

I think we will sing He Lives on Sunday ( I am the song leader at our Church)

 

[Jarthur001]

Just to continue, we still have our sin nature and still sin as long as we are on this earth. But we are no longer the slaves of sin. We have been set free to serve the risen savior!
Makes me want to sing actualy!

I think we will sing He Lives on Sunday ( I am the song leader at our Church)

NOW THAT...is what the BIBLE SAYS!!!!

Amen bro. mmm mmm mmmm Good stuff.

When I teach on salvation I have others playing out the parts ...you know walking though each stage. Anyway,,when I have the believer sins atoned...he drops the sign that says SINS...showing his sins are gone. Yet just as you said...he still carries his sin nature. So i then have my helper walk over close to the person acting as God the Son...for he was the one that PAID for our sins and now owns us. So the believer stands beside the Son of God...to his left..and holds the sign.."sin nature to his right. The sin nature is always with us.

Here is the picture. You follow...who you have your eyes on. When the believe turns his eyes to the Lord...he also turns has back on his sin nature. Yet that sin nature is still there..tapping on his back...saying..come this way. At at times..we turn and look at our sin nature..and when we do..we turn our back of the Lord and sin. Man can not follow to masters.

The story of Peter walking on the water is in the Bible for this reason. When Peter had his eyes on the Lord...all was great. When he looked away...he falls...i think a picture of sin.


Yet is is not our works that makes us "right"...it is the blood of Christ..ON THE CROSS.


Anyway...i agree %10000


In Christ...James

 

[Dale-c]

James, do you ever record any of your lessons?

That is a good analogy.
I might add that whenever we try to do something in our own flesh, we sin, just as peter in his own flesh coulnd't walk on the water.
The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Dale-c]

Aren't the Psalms refreshing? I don't know why I don't read them more often.

 

[Jarthur001]

Aren't the Psalms refreshing? I don't know why I don't read them more often.

Hello Dale,

I think my church may have me recorded a few times, but I don't have any copies. About 10 years ago, the Lord laid on my heart to write a little lesson that I called "The House That God Built". This has grown into a ton of notes and Charts. I got the idea from the so called "salvation triangle", using it as the roof of the house. God has used it many times and thank God for His Goodness. I should add...a lesson called "the pit" comes right before this. This is none other then "what it means to be lose"...mans sin nature.

anyway...

I knew I have enemies that hate what is said and wish I would just go away. Yet I also know I do not stand alone. Many others here stand for the truth of the doctrines of Grace. Some post, others do not post, but have wrote and said so. I'm sure each of you have had such emails. Still, we are a small number. I know that some just disagree with our views, and yet still think of us as a believer. I'm not talking about just disagreements. I'm talking about the ones that hate and look at our views as the enemy. You can see it in their words. They mock, lie, twist words, and try to play us as the fool. Its sad, but to some it seems like this is the only goal. But who do I have to fear? If I believe Gods Word, and this is what I post, let the hate come, for I know this is part of it. God's love is greater then all the hate the world has. Gods Word is my home. I open it up, close the door, set in my chair, and Let my Father talk to me. Its good to be Home after a long day.

The Psalms are refreshing..and one I just thought of...

SIDENOTE

I picked this Psalm to share, because of the word.."fear". I had already wrote what was above, then I read the Psalm after posting it. WOW...house..tent. Now I ask you, I not knowing that was in there fully other then fear...who gave me that Psalm??? God gives us what we need, when we need it. Gods grace...I would be lost without it

Psalm 27(26) Dominus illuminatio

1 The Lord is my light and my help;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold of my life;
before whom shall I shrink?

2 When evil-doers draw near
to devour my flesh,
it is they, my enemies and foes,
who stumble and fall.

3 Though an army encamp against me
my heart would not fear.
Though war break out against me
even then would I trust.

4 There is one thing I ask of the Lord,
for this I long,
to live in the house of the Lord,
all the days of my life,
to savor the sweetness of the Lord,
to behold his temple.

5 For there he keeps me safe in his tent
in the day of evil.
He hides me in the shelter of his tent,
on a rock he sets me safe.

6 And now my head shall be raised
above my foes who surround me
and I shall offer within his tent
a sacrifice of joy.

I will sing and make music for the Lord.

7 O Lord, hear my voice when I call;
have mercy and answer.
8 Of you my heart has spoken:
"Seek his face."

It is your face, O Lord, that I seek;
9 hide not your face.
Dismiss not your servant in anger;
you have been my help.

Do not abandon or forsake me,
O God my help!
10 Though father and mother forsake me,
the Lord will receive me.

11 Instruct me, Lord, in your way;
on an even path lead me.
/12 When they lie in ambush protect me
from my enemy's greed.
False witnesses rise against me,
breathing out fury.

13 I am sure I shall see the Lord's goodness
in the land of the living.
14 Hope in him, hold firm and take heart.
Hope in the Lord!

 

[Milady]

Posted with wrong account again.

 

[Dale-c]

The doctrines of Grace truly are the most hated doctrine in the Bible. Specifically that GOd is really God and that man truly is hopeless without him.

I grew up around people that did not believe these doctrines and it took a long time for me to really admit they were true, though I believed them as soon as I first read them from the Bible.
It is sad that so few Baptists believe this way anymore when it was once common for every christian to believe in the Sovereignty of God.

Oddly enough, I have found more agreement in my area with independent Lutherans and reformed Presbyterians.
I really think that this doctrine is more important than the doctrines that separate us from other denominations.

As for the resistance you will receive,

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
(I John 3:13)

 

[Brother Bob]

Amazon.com: The House That God Built: Books: Mark Hanby by Mark Hanby.

Is this it or did someone beat you to it?

Are you Mark Hanby the writer?

 

[Jarthur001]

Amazon.com: The House That God Built: Books: Mark Hanby by Mark Hanby.

Is this it or did someone beat you to it?

Hello Brother Bob,

No book..yet. I like many of you have about 10 books stated..and never end them.
oh well. It looks like I will need to change my heading if that day comes.

That book you placed a link to, I think is talking about the church...which is more in line with "the House" I guess. It does sound like a book I would like to read.

My idea came from the salvation triangle and covers all about salvation. I 1st just jazzed it up the triangle. The more I added...it started looking like a stick house. anyway..that is how I got my name for my lesson. If you send me your email address, i'll send you my early drawing of the salvation triangle.


In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

I appreciate the offer.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Dale,

I meant to say something about this one line...and forgot.

I might add that whenever we try to do something in our own flesh, we sin, just as peter in his own flesh coulnd't walk on the water.

There is not as much debate on this in the Baptist threads, but you go down to the "other denominations" and you have your hands full. Many down there hold to things that they do...help. Good works does not help...its the problum. Its very hard some some to see this. When talking to others, I try to take them away from Godly works and into just good deeds to show this. After they understand..I bring them back to Godly works and this seems to help many see.

The picture I use a lot of times is building a dog house. If I build a good dog house, I feel good about myself. I must be a good builder, look at the great dog house. This is nothing but pride.

Even if I do not think its so hot, If someone tells me later, "James..that is a good dog house"..then pride will start to set in.
If the dog house is bad, in pride I will say to others,
"well...i'm not a good builder. I'm more of a computer person"
...and wait for others to say..."james..that dog house is not so bad"...for in pride we want to hear how good we are and lift up our name.

Even if the Dog house is bad...and my wife tells me it is bad, I may turn and say..
"I want to see you build a dog house if you think your so smart..that was hard work..and you can do no better??". In pride I may get mad, for she told me my dog house was bad and that makes me look bad.

So yes..I agree. Whenever we try to do something in our own flesh, we sin. We sin when we don't even mean to sin. The only action that removes sin, is when we act in love. Love the Lord God with all your heart...and love others as yourself.


In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

That is nonsense.

What about feeding the poor.
Visiting the sick.
Going to Church.
Praying for others.

Just plain nonsense.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I was hungry and you fed me not.
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink.
I was sick and you visited me not.
I knocked and you didn't open.

A pure and undefiled religion is to visit the widows and orphans in their afflictions and keep yourself unspotted from the world.

Jeepers!

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Bob,

I see you disagree. I did not say your name, But I knew you was one that would disagree. We have talked about works before. You hold that we NEED to keep the law....unlike most Baptist. Most Baptist say...we keep it in love.

That is nonsense.

What about feeding the poor.

If you feed the poor in and of yourself as a "WORK"...you will think.."i must be a good guy, look at my good works. This is why you see hollywood taking one week out a year to feed the poor and wanting to be seen on TV doing so, so that their sins do not look as bad the rest of the year.
"I'm not so bad...remember when I feed those guys on TV 3 months ago?"
Yet..if you feed to poor in all Godly love...this only gives glory to God...and even if we get no glory...it does not matter.

When you Visiting the sick in yourself...your work is gloried...yet when you visit in love of God...it brings glory to God.

Look at me...i go to church. I go to church each Sunday...and those others people...they only go every other Sunday....I must be GOOD...I am way more better then they..((Going to Church))....or....I can't wait to go worship the God I love...because it don't matter what others are doing today..I'm not there to show off my new dress...I'm going no matter what...for I can't wait to worship my God..whom I love

God ....thank God I'm not like those sinners. Thank you Lord for making me better then they. Please make them more like me, Help them to follow my good leading..and GO TO CHURCH....(((((Praying for others.)))) OR..in love pray...Lord...take my life if it means mom will come to know You.

Just plain nonsense? What do you think?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....IN LOVE
I was hungry and you fed me not........for you had no love
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink.....for you had no love for me
I was sick and you visited me not.........for your love was in YOU and not in God
I knocked and you didn't open....for you loved me not

A pure and undefiled religeon is to visit the widows and orphans in their afflictions and keep yourself unspotted from the world........In LOVE



In Christ..love...James

 

[webdog]

The doctrines of Grace truly are the most hated doctrine in the Bible. Specifically that GOd is really God and that man truly is hopeless without him.

I grew up around people that did not believe these doctrines and it took a long time for me to really admit they were true, though I believed them as soon as I first read them from the Bible.
It is sad that so few Baptists believe this way anymore when it was once common for every christian to believe in the Sovereignty of God.

Oddly enough, I have found more agreement in my area with independent Lutherans and reformed Presbyterians.
I really think that this doctrine is more important than the doctrines that separate us from other denominations.

As for the resistance you will receive,

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
(I John 3:13)

I hope you are not saying that whoever resists the "doctrines of grace" are not saved (the world).

 

[Dale-c]

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
(Romans 14:23)

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
(I Corinthians 10:31)

In the sermon Sunday we were going through the book of Genesis.
It is interesting that as soon as Adam and Eve sinned, they began to try to clean up their act by putting clothes on. They tried to show their own goodness.
ALso, I had never noticed that Eve added to the Law when she said "neither shall ye touch it, when God had not said that in the last chapter.


So, Bob:

That is nonsense.

What about feeding the poor.
Visiting the sick.
Going to Church.
Praying for others.

Are you saying that you have good in and of yourself?
If you have done these things with your own flesh, then they are as filthy rags.

But we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
(Isaiah 64:6)

Any good you have ever done is only by the GRace of God working in you. If you claim to have done it yourself, you are merely wasting your time for your own glory.

 

[Brother Bob]

What about feeding the poor.

If you feed the poor in and of yourself as a "WORK"...you will think.."i must be a good guy, look at my good works. This is why you see hollywood taking one week out a year to feed the poor and wanting to be seen on TV doing so, so that their sins do not look as bad the rest of the year.
"I'm not so bad...remember when I feed those guys on TV 3 months ago?"
Yet..if you feed to poor in all Godly love...this only gives glory to God...and even if we get no glory...it does not matter.

When you Visiting the sick in yourself...your work is gloried...yet when you visit in love of God...it brings glory to God.

Look at me...i go to church. I go to church each Sunday...and those others people...they only go every other Sunday....I must be GOOD...I am way more better then they..((Going to Church))....or....I can't wait to go worship the God I love...because it don't matter what others are doing today..I'm not there to show off my new dress...I'm going no matter what...for I can't wait to worship my God..whom I love

God ....thank God I'm not like those sinners. Thank you Lord for making me better then they. Please make them more like me, Help them to follow my good leading..and GO TO CHURCH....(((((Praying for others.)))) OR..in love pray...Lord...take my life if it means mom will come to know You.

Just plain nonsense? What do you think?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....IN LOVE
I was hungry and you fed me not........for you had no love
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink.....for you had no love for me
I was sick and you visited me not.........for your love was in YOU and not in God
I knocked and you didn't open....for you loved me not

A pure and undefiled religeon is to visit the widows and orphans in their afflictions and keep yourself unspotted from the world........In LOVE

It is what God says to do and you added "LOVE" after I confronted you with it. Only God knows if its in love or not outside of yourself.
If more people would be taught to do these things it would be a better world instead of telling folks what you do is "sin".

Yes, I do indeed believe in the keeping of the Commandments and would like to know which one can you be breaking and serving God at the same time. Can you be worshiping an idol God and serve the True God at the same time? I don't think so but don't know what you believe after saying that doing good works is sin.

I knocked and you didn't open ..... IN LOVE, jeepers how else could you open James. Again, it is nonsense. Teach others to cease to do evil and learn to do good and you will be doing the work of the Lord.

Both of you try and take good works and make a sin out of them. utterly nonsense.

On the Commandments: Do you believe in keeping the two that Jesus gave?

 

[Dale-c]

I hope you are not saying that whoever resists the "doctrines of grace" are not saved (the world).

I kind of expected this response.
No, I don't believe that you have to be a "calvinist" to be saved. However, I must seriously doubt the salvation of one who would deny the total work of God in salvation, and one who would deny God's sovereignty in salvation after seeing it so clearly in the Bible.

I can not know another mans heart. I would not judge your heart or any other mans specifically but in general, the more someone relies on their own goodness, the more I would doubt their true belief.

 

[Dale-c]

Teach others to cease to do evil and do good and you will be doing the work of the Lord.

But aside from the grace of God, it is impossible for them to do good!


If you think that it is possible to teach people to do good without first being saved, then you are a humanist and no Christian.
I am not accusing you of that...just saying for your consideration to be careful. That is what they belief is...make sure that is really what you believe. The results of that belief is dangerous.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't need you to tell me how to be a Christian, thank you. (especially you)

 

[webdog]

I'm asking you to post verses about hardening the heart...and why you think this is not needed to the man in his sin nature...if in fact he is DEAD....or is this your own strawman?

Does a corpse need his mind hardened and his eyes blinded to the truth...yes or no, and don't play word games like "what does need mean?" You always answer a question with a question, and I'm tired of answering yours without a clear answer. If you dont' want to answer, or can't, just say so, that's fine. You know exactly where the story of Pharaoh is, so look it up at your leisure.

Ok...let me ask again. What did Christ work on the cross do to change man? Other then...in your view...give him a path to God?

This has been answered for you already.

I have. I used the word enabled..you said it was not used but rather only DRAW. But..enable is used..in john 6. right? what is it..john 6 63-65...somewhere in there.

Do the greek thing.

and yes..nekros is used death of the body...can not respond.
spiritual condition...can not respond..matt 8:22..john 5:25...eph 2:1,5 5:14...phil 3:11, col 2: 13....luke 15:24

also...the church in declension...

also...dead to sin...meaning apart from the law. (i know what is coming on this..but i'm ready)

also...dead to the works of the law....no need to respond to the law

and faith that is dead...no response to good works,


But also...nekroo..the active voice...col 3:5

and nekroo...the passive voice...romans 4:19...heb 11:12

also...thanatoo....to be put to death,,,

the only ground you have to stand on..is hemithanes. this is used only one time..luke 10:30.

all others mean...can not respond. am i right...or what?

One of the first things you see in the definition of didomi is "used in a very wide application...literally or figuratively." Wow, where else did we see figuratively before...oh yes, your literal, concrete definition of "dead". Seeing that this verse falls after 44, it should be pretty obvious that if one responds to the drawing of the Father, God will grant (didomi) the full truth of Jesus Christ to that person. You calvinists love to twist the converse and inverse of statements to prove your points. From the text we know that God the Father gives (didomi) those to Christ. It does not say those who don't come to Christ are not given (didomi) by the Father. On the contrary, verse 63 and 64 tie the individual's belief into the equation. Verse 63 nicely ties the "quickening" (zoopoieo) with believing in verse 64 ("But there are some of you who believe not"). Verse 65 then start out with the connection word "therefore" in explaining who comes to Christ, those who are drawn (verse 44) and respond (verse 64). Salvation is totally from God, and God makes this known to man. Man can refuse this drawing and think they can get to Heaven on their own merit, but verse 65 makes it clear salvation is totally from God and not man. Given the ability to believe or not in no way puts salvation on man's shoulders as calvinism teaches.