What went wrong for Trump in North Korea? Everything

[atpollard]

Continuing with Perloff:

"To melt, steel must reach a temperature of about 2800 degrees Fahrenheit. Jet fuel burns at a maximum of 1500 degrees, and most experts concur that the World Trade Center flames probably didn't exceed 500-600 degrees. Exposure to such flames wouldn't melt the buildings' steel any more than your stove's gas flames will melt your pots and pans.
What would cause steel to melt would be detonation of the military explosive thermite, which reaches 4500 degrees in seconds.
It would also explain why the building's concrete pulverized into dust instead of falling in large chunks.
With over 1,700 building professionals in its ranks, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (www.ae911truth.org) has documented overwhelming evidence that the Twin Towers' collapse resulted from controlled demolition..."

(taken from pages 175 and 176 of James Perloff's book.

And how does one account for the same kind of collapse for Building Seven for which no one claims a plane touched?

All three buildings tumbled down neatly into their own footprints.

Then why do ANY buildings require fireproofing of steel structural members?
Surely the threat of Thermite at the local mall or theater or Walmart is astronomically small.

Could it perhaps be that Steel looses a percentage of its structural strength at temperatures far lower than its melting point?

(I find it incredible - literally not credible - that 1700 Architects and Engineers do not know this basic fact necessary to pass the licensing exam.)

I have not examined any evidence for Building Seven, so I have no idea why it collapsed. Some possibilities include wind load or seismic forces from the collapse of adjacent buildings, flawed structural design or construction, debris impact, collapse of underground tunnels or some combination of factors.

A.T. Pollard, RA

 

[FollowTheWay]

9/11 Families Support the Bobby McIlvaine Act

We, whose loved ones were killed in the events of September 11, 2001, join in support of opening a new and truly independent investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.

For sixteen long years we have waited for truth and justice. During this time, an abundance of evidence has been gathered that casts serious doubt on the official explanation for the destruction of these three skyscrapers.

We therefore call upon the U.S. Congress to enact the Bobby McIlvaine World Trade Center Investigation Act immediately. Only by conducting an open and honest investigation will the millions of people affected by this tragedy finally have the truth they deserve.

 

[FollowTheWay]

"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength—and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - World Trade Center

Molten Metal Pouring out of WTC 2
Just before 9:52 AM, molten metal began pouring out of WTC 2 near the northeast corner of the 80th floor and continued to flow with increasing intensity until the collapse at 9:59 AM. NIST provided ample documentation of the pouring molten metal, which it described and hypothesized as follows:

Molten metal pouring out of WTC 2.

“Just over a second [after 9:51:51 AM], a bright spot appeared at the top of one window...and a glowing liquid began to pour from this location.... The composition of the flowing material can only be the subject of speculation, but its behavior suggests it could have been molten aluminum.... The Aluminum Association Handbook...lists the melting point ranges for the alloys [comprising the Boeing 767 structure] as roughly 500°C to 638°C and 475°C to 635°C.... These temperatures are well below those characteristic of fully developed fires (c. 1,000°C)....” 1

But, as Dr. Steven Jones writes in “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?” this claim is untenable due to the color of the molten metal:

“Is the falling molten metal from WTC Tower 2...more likely molten iron from a thermite reaction OR pouring molten aluminum?

“The yellow color implies a molten metal temperature of approximately 1,000°C, evidently above that which the dark-smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce.... Also, the fact that the liquid metal retains an orange hue as it nears the ground...further rules out aluminum....

“We also noted [in our experiments] that...the falling aluminum displayed a silvery-gray color, adding significantly to the evidence that the yellow-white molten metal flowing out from the South Tower shortly before its collapse was NOT molten aluminum.” 2

 

[FollowTheWay]

Then why do ANY buildings require fireproofing of steel structural members?
Surely the threat of Thermite at the local mall or theater or Walmart is astronomically small.

Could it perhaps be that Steel looses a percentage of its structural strength at temperatures far lower than its melting point?

(I find it incredible - literally not credible - that 1700 Architects and Engineers do not know this basic fact necessary to pass the licensing exam.)

I have not examined any evidence for Building Seven, so I have no idea why it collapsed. Some possibilities include wind load or seismic forces from the collapse of adjacent buildings, flawed structural design or construction, debris impact, collapse of underground tunnels or some combination of factors.

A.T. Pollard, RA

I find it incredible that you try to speak with some knowledge about 9/11, but are not aware of the stream of molton steel that flowed under ground zero for weeks after the impact.

Molten Metal in the Debris
Not only was molten metal seen pouring out of WTC 2, dozens of eyewitnesses observed it in the debris of all three buildings. A small selection is presented below (a comprehensive list of all eyewitness accounts to molten metal can be found in the article “Witnesses of Molten Metal at Ground Zero”):

• Leslie Robertson, a lead engineer in the design of WTC 1 and WTC 2, told an audience: “We were down at the B-1 level and one of the firefighters said, ‘I think you’d be interested in this.’ And they pulled up a big block of concrete, and there was like a little river of steel flowing.” 5

• FDNY Captain Philip Ruvolo recalled with other firefighters seated next to him: “You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you’re in a foundry, like lava.” Other firefighters chimed in: “Like lava.” “Like lava from a volcano.” 6

• Ken Holden, the Commissioner of the NYC Department of Design and Construction, testified before the 9/11 Commission: “Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6.” 7

 

[FollowTheWay]

Nano-thermite in the WTC Dust

Photomicrographs of red-gray chips from each of the four WTC dust samples. The inset in (d) shows the gray layer of the chips.

In April 2009 a group of scientists led by Dr. Niels Harrit, an expert in nano-chemistry who taught chemistry at the University of Copenhagen for over 40 years, published a paper in the Open Chemical Physics Journal titled “Active Thermitic Materials Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe.”

Thermite is a substance used in the controlled demolition of buildings. The presence of the above-described substance in the WTC dust strongly suggests that nano-thermite was used in the destruction of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7.

 

[atpollard]

I find it incredible that you try to speak with some knowledge about 9/11, but are not aware of the stream of molten steel that flowed under ground zero for weeks after the impact.

Cite a reference please. Even magma does not remain molten and flowing for weeks after leaving a volcano and Thermite burns quickly (not for weeks), so I detect an 'urban myth'.

I can easily believe that there was molten metal in the debris immediately following a 24,000 gallon Jet Fuel fire that burned uncontrolled for over an hour before millions of pounds of concrete and steel collapsed into a hole ... but not for weeks.

Was there copper or aluminum wire in the WTC?
Did the HVAC units have copper condensers?
Was there copper plumbing lines?
Were aluminum studs used to frame light interior partitions?

What temperature does Copper and Aluminum melt at?

 

[atpollard]

Nano-thermite in the WTC Dust

Photomicrographs of red-gray chips from each of the four WTC dust samples. The inset in (d) shows the gray layer of the chips.

In April 2009 a group of scientists led by Dr. Niels Harrit, an expert in nano-chemistry who taught chemistry at the University of Copenhagen for over 40 years, published a paper in the Open Chemical Physics Journal titled “Active Thermitic Materials Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe.”

Thermite is a substance used in the controlled demolition of buildings. The presence of the above-described substance in the WTC dust strongly suggests that nano-thermite was used in the destruction of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7.

Thermite is made from Iron and Aluminum powders. Is it really a shock that crashing an aluminum plane into a steel building will deposit trace amounts of aluminum and steel 'micro-particles' on the debris as "proof" of Thermite?

 

[Rippon]

I have not examined any evidence for Building Seven, so I have no idea why it collapsed. Some possibilities include wind load or seismic forces from the collapse of adjacent buildings, flawed structural design or construction, debris impact, collapse of underground tunnels or some combination of factors.

Building Seven went down smoothly in 6.6 seconds in the same manner as the other two towers. All were controlled demolitions.

 

[atpollard]

"John Skilling, the World Trade Center's chief structural engineer, said the buildings were designed to absorb the impact of a Boeing 707 (not much smaller than the 767s that actually struck them). In January 2001, World Trade Center construction manager Frank A. Demartini said:

The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe the building could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because the structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door --this intense grid --and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Taken from Truth Is A Lonely Warrior by James Perloff (page 175)

I stand corrected on 767 vs 747.

However, in 1962 when the WTC was beginning design, the 707-120 weighed 117 tons with 17,330 gallons of fuel.
In 2011, the 767-200 that struck one tower weighed 157 tons with 16,700 gallons of fuel and the 767-200ER that struck the other tower weighed 197 tons with 24,140 gallons of fuel.

• 117 tons design vs 157 tons impact (134% of design)
• 17,330 gallons design vs 24,140 gallons impact (139% of design)

 

[atpollard]

Building Seven went down smoothly in 6.6 seconds in the same manner as the other two towers. All were controlled demolitions.

Just to make sure I understand this ...

The US Government blows up buildings in the United States for some nefarious purpose, and North Korea is building nuclear armed ICBMs because they really just want peace. That's the story.

I think I'm ready to move to Montana and become a survivalist. Society has officially lost its mind.

 

[Rippon]

Just to make sure I understand this ...

The US Government blows up buildings in the United States for some nefarious purpose

You got it.

To quote Perloff again :

"And the purpose of 9-11? At least two are evident.

(1) To create the National Homeland Security Agency as a 'Big Brother' apparatus that will incrementally spy on, and oppress, the American people, based on ever-widening definitions of the word 'terrorist.' ….the Agency was proposed before 9-11. According to Ted Gunderson, when the 1993 government-arranged initial bombing of the WTC failed to bring about the desired anti-terrorist legislation, they upgraded to Oklahoma City. When that failed to produce Homeland Security, they resorted to 9-11.
(2) To generate the Middle East wars sought by Feith, Perle and Israel."
(p.195)

 

[FollowTheWay]

Cite a reference please. Even magma does not remain molten and flowing for weeks after leaving a volcano and Thermite burns quickly (not for weeks), so I detect an 'urban myth'.

I can easily believe that there was molten metal in the debris immediately following a 24,000 gallon Jet Fuel fire that burned uncontrolled for over an hour before millions of pounds of concrete and steel collapsed into a hole ... but not for weeks.

Was there copper or aluminum wire in the WTC?
Did the HVAC units have copper condensers?
Was there copper plumbing lines?
Were aluminum studs used to frame light interior partitions?

What temperature does Copper and Aluminum melt at?

None of your questions are relevant. Copper and aluminum were not significant to the question. Thermite indicates a controlled demolition. This information is on the site referenced in post #85.

High-Temperature Thermitic Reactions

Now please provide me with a reference for any of your speculation.

 

[Revmitchell]

None of your questions are relevant. Copper and aluminum were not significant to the question. Thermite indicates a controlled demolition. This information is on the site referenced in post #85.

High-Temperature Thermitic Reactions

Now please provide me with a reference for any of your speculation.

Everything you have posted is speculation. All kinds of claims are being made all over the place. We all saw the planes. No one faked them. Get over it and move on.

 

[Rippon]

We all saw the planes. No one faked them. Get over it and move on.

Don't mistake him for me.

I was the one who said there were no planes.

I'm not sure that he is on the same page with me on that.

But he's right on the money with all else regarding 9/11 to the best of my knowledge. And his knowledge is beyond my grasp with respect to technical matters.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Don't mistake him for me.

I was the one who said there were no planes.

I'm not sure that he is on the same page with me on that.

But he's right on the money with all else regarding 9/11 to the best of my knowledge. And his knowledge is beyond my grasp with respect to technical matters.

Personally, I feel that the continued outcry of the 9/11 families to determine the truth about how their sons, brothers, sisters, fathers. mothers were killed is significant. We respected our veterans on memorial Day. Why don't we respect these people who have lived with a lie for over 16 years? To me that's terrifically unpatriotic and insensitive.

My post #82 provides their latest request into an in-depth review of 9/11 including putting President GW Bush and VP Dick Cheney on the stand under oath. They refused to do that for that previous farce of an investigation. Why?

 

[Reformed]

Just to make sure I understand this ...

The US Government blows up buildings in the United States for some nefarious purpose, and North Korea is building nuclear armed ICBMs because they really just want peace. That's the story.

I think I'm ready to move to Montana and become a survivalist. Society has officially lost its mind.

I had to grow my block list a bit. I cannot abide these ignorant individuals who think 911 was an inside job. While they are at it, why do they not just spit on the graves of the dead? To even dialog with them is to give them more respect than they deserve.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[FollowTheWay]

I had to grow my block list a bit. I cannot abide these ignorant individuals who think 911 was an inside job. While they are at it, why do they not just spit on the graves of the dead? To even dialog with them is to give them more respect than they deserve.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

YOU are the one spitting in the face of those who were killed on 9/11 by ignoring their family's request for another investigation.

 

[just-want-peace]

I think what I find amazing is the massive, MASSIVE conspiricy, and the # of people needed to accomplish such an event, that it was possible w/o ANY leaks. Moreover, the precision of timing that allowed the setting of said “controlled” explosives to have all the players (conspiritors?) complete their tasks, and be ready to “fire” such explosives just as the planes hit!!!????
Can’t envision all the details, needed for fooling the public, to all come together for such a plot not to be (1 exposed prematurely, or (2 be executed so perfectly that nearly 20 years late it’s still not resolved.

Unless of course it was mass deception a’la holography that fooled the masses, both local and via TV, that saw the planes “hit” the buildings.

Maybe it was REALLY UFOs that just looked like airliners & not all people had the gift of actually seeing them.
Yeah, that’s what I believe!!??

 

[InTheLight]

I think what I find amazing is the massive, MASSIVE conspiricy, and the # of people needed to accomplish such an event, that it was possible w/o ANY leaks. Moreover, the precision of timing that allowed the setting of said “controlled” explosives to have all the players (conspiritors?) complete their tasks, and be ready to “fire” such explosives just as the planes hit!!!????
Can’t envision all the details, needed for fooling the public, to all come together for such a plot not to be (1 exposed prematurely, or (2 be executed so perfectly that nearly 20 years late it’s still not resolved.

The thing that amazes me is the patience of the conspirators. Just think--the explosives had to have been installed during construction of the World Trade Towers back in the late 60's. That was back during the Nixon administration, 30 some years before they detonated the bombs on 9/11. Just fantastic that George W. Bush decided he wanted in on a thirty year old plot and picked up the ball and carried it across the goal line for Nixon, isn't it?

 

[Rippon]

I had to grow my block list a bit. I cannot abide these ignorant individuals who think 911 was an inside job. While they are at it, why do they not just spit on the graves of the dead? To even dialog with them is to give them more respect than they deserve.

One meaning of the word ignorant is uninformed. You are uninformed. Of course Scripture enjoins us to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord.

But even in temporal matters we need to be well-informed. You are not in the matter of what happened on 9/11. However, most Americans are in your camp. Slowly but surely some will wake up and be ashamed of themselves on down the road.