When Churchianity fails you . . .

Hi Seeker of the Source,

I haven't had time to read all the posts here so don't know if this has already been mentioned.

Dr. Bruce Milne's very good book Know the Truth discusses the Christian Churches as an organism versus the Christian Churches as an organisation. You may be confused between the two.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matthew 13:24-30 may help you here. I write as one who sees this pasage as addressing the situation in the Christian Churches where both genuine and false Christians fellowship side by side (both then and now) and not the world in general.

 

I prefer the term Indepent Christian over Generic Christian but that is your choice.

By Indepent Christian I mean one who believes they are a Christian but doesn't see themselves as fitting in the three major divisions of Christianity:

The three major divisions of Christianity today are:
1) Roman Catholicism.
2) Orthodoxy (ie Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox etc) and,
3) The various Protestant denominations (ie Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal etc).

 

All good. I encourage you to keep searching in your spiritual growth.

 

An Interesting comment.

Would need to reflect on it for awhile before replying.

 

Watchman Nee believed in soul-winning, in

We Baptists in general do not consider ourselves to be Protestant. The Baptist movement developed outside of the Reformation.

 

Interesting.

I always thought they developed from the anna-baptists but will need to do some Googling on that.

 

That is one theory, but not held by Baptists in general. There is no direct historical connection between the Anabaptists and the English Baptists, who developed from the English Separatists. "The Baptists generally did not share the Anabaptists' effort to withdraw from the world, their extreme pacifism, their communal sharing of earthly goods, or their semi-Pelagian optimism about human nature" (The Baptist Heritage, by H. Leon McBeth, p. 53).

 

The Greek word for "church" (ἐκκλησια, ekklesia) developed from the legislative body of a Greek city state, which was made up of all of the male citizens of a city. Therefore, there were membership requirements: male, citizen, of a certain age. The ekklesia is used that way in Acts 19:32, 39 ("assembly" in the KJV). The word ekklesia did not lose those meanings, common at the time of Christ, simply because God decided to use that word for the gatherings of His people. What you call the "organized church" is just that--believers organized in a Biblical way. God is not the author of confusion.

The church as an organization planned by God is apparent all through the NT by:
1. A systematic way to handle problems (Matt. 16, 18)
2. Rules for how to act in the assembly (1 Cor. 14).
3. Standards of behavior (Acts 15:20).
4. How to treat rich and poor people in the church (James ).
And so forth.

The church as "organism" can only be based on the Biblical teaching that it is the body of Christ. However, that is clearly a metaphor, not a literal teaching. Christ's physical body is in Heaven.

 

Here I am in the beautiful city of Asahikawa, Japan, doing street evangelism ala Watchman Nee.

In the days of Watchman Nee, this method of reaching the lost was quite common in all of Asia. Nee did it often, judging by his biography (already mentioned). Thus, it is quite ironic to me that someone who claims to follow Nee would be so incensed and offended that I said that to reach those around us and other nations for Christ is a direct command of Christ (which I proved), and to disobey a direct command of the Lord is sin. And the charge that telling someone that to disobey Christ is sin is a legalist, is ridiculous in the extreme.

So here it is: Anyone who claims to follow Watchman Nee, but does not seek to reach the world for Christ, clearly does not know Watchman Nee.

By the way, evangelism is never easy. I certainly understand those who shrink back from it. It takes time away from your comfortable chair, and you might get laughed at. You might have someone slam the door in your face. But of course, there in America you won't face death after 20 years in prison for your faith, like Watchman Nee did.

Missionaries and other foreigners in China during the time of Nee (and even today in Guangdong Province) were called gweilo (Chinese: 鬼佬), usually translated as "foreign devil." In Japan, we were called gaijin (外人), literally meaning "outside person." We never did fit in, we were looked at strangely, we were laughed at, we were ignored. That's tough, folks! But we were obeying the last command of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is an awful thing to disobey Him when He saved you.

A full time missionary sacrifices much for the cause of Jesus Christ. I am reminded of the hymn, "Must I be carried to the skies in flowery beds of ease, while others fought to win the prize, and sailed through bloody seas?" If your house church or any other kind of church refuses to reach out to win people to Christ, then go ahead. Sit back in your easy chair. Enjoy your Christianity. But certainly, do not sacrifice. Never give money you don't have to the missionary cause. Don't give tracts that tell about Jesus to anyone--they might get offended, or think you are strange. Never, ever, visit a mission field, because that would cost the money you want to spend on a new car. Plus, you might catch some strange disease, like the malaria I know several missionaries have had. But then you can still pat yourself on the back and say, yes, I am a good Christian. And you can then call anyone you disagree with a legalist.

 

Now, house/home churches do evangelism, that is true. You don't have to be a disobedient Christian to go to or have a house/home church.

Here is a good article on that: Leading Home Church Evangelism

I could wish that the author presented the Gospel better, but it is a start. (He does not mention either the death or the resurrection of Christ, which are essential elements. See 1 Cor. 15.)

 

Good ole viola. Boy that ship sailed long ago.

 

I just checked out his website. Saw nothing about reaching the lost for Christ or preaching the Gospel to the world.

 

Thx.

That is interesting.

 

Excuse me BRO, but you started this thread accusing us of worshipping idols, and bringing it to a debate board....

You expected a pat on the back?

Instead of whining about peoples character, Tell us how YOUR complaint about clergy is not like Korah's complaint.


1 timothy 4

14Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.

1 timothy 5

22Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

These things bestowed by the priesthood how do you receive them without any link?


"Generic: not of any man-made Christian denomination"

You've made one yourself. The Pattersonites.

You even slapped down a creed without knowing it.

 

Yep, looked into it years back when his book came out and the house church movement was hot. It has fizzled since. It is cult like in that if you dont do it their way your a heathen. They call bad mouth pastors and church leaders. They reject discipleship as you have seen here in this thread. Many of them are very full of themselves as we have seen here as well.

 

Th

Thx for that.

I've forgotten a lot of my Church History studies but that rings some bells. Will look into The Baptist Heritage, by H. Leon McBeth when time permits.

Stay Strong in Christ.