When Churchianity fails you . . .

[AustinC]

I indeed have had a very personal and costly revelation from the Spirit of God, calling me out of organized religion, "outside of the camp" as referred to in Hebrews - which is biblical-based and not "extra-biblical".

And after this revelation, I came across others' very similar testimonies and also writings that also confirmed my renewed interpretation of Hebrews 13:13. This verse was not only asking Jews to leave the camp of Judaism in the 1st century but has come down through the centuries as a clarion call for the true ekklesia, (the called out ones), to leave the camp of churchianity -- to flee the clergy-laity, pastoral system created by men and not by the Lord.

May the Lord Himself give you this same revelation, my brother.

Be careful about being outside the camp. When we read about God's chosen people, wandering in the wilderness, we see that God lives in the midst with the 12 tribes organized around the tabernacle. People who lived outside the camp were unclean and removed from fellowship.

Hebrews 12:22-24,28
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe.

Notice then the reason why Jesus was outside the camp and why we follow. Jesus was killed outside the camp as our atoning sacrifice. As followers of Christ who are "in Christ" we are with Christ.

Hebrews 13:13
Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured.

I do not think you are understanding that God calls us to be members of a local body, regardless of whether it is a house church or a local church. When we attend as members we are coming to the assembly, joining all the saints in heaven. A rogue Christian is living outside the will of God for fellowship and accountability with his brothers and sisters.

 

[John of Japan]

I indeed have had a very personal and costly revelation from the Spirit of God, calling me out of organized religion, "outside of the camp" as referred to in Hebrews - which is biblical-based and not "extra-biblical".

And after this revelation, I came across others' very similar testimonies and also writings that also confirmed my renewed interpretation of Hebrews 13:13. This verse was not only asking Jews to leave the camp of Judaism in the 1st century but has come down through the centuries as a clarion call for the true ekklesia, (the called out ones), to leave the camp of churchianity -- to flee the clergy-laity, pastoral system created by men and not by the Lord.

This, then, is eisegesis. You are putting your own interpretation on Heb. 13:13 with no reason. There is nothing in the context about church. The only times ekklesia is used in the whole book of Hebrews is in 2:12 (a quote from Ps. 22:22, hardly about the NT church), and 12:23, very clearly about the assembly of saints in Heaven. So the book of Hebrews is not about the NT church at all. Beyond that, when it was written, all churches were the same--there was not any "organized religion" as you are using the term. So it is impossible exegetically for you to say that we should come out of organized religion according to Heb. 13:13.

Furthermore, look at the immediate context: "11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 2 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach." No question about it: the author of Hebrews is referring to the burning of the sacrificed animals outside the camp of Israel. In other words, it is a reference to the sacrifice of Christ of Himself for our sins.

May the Lord Himself give you this same revelation, my brother.

Sorry, I can't follow you in such eisegesis. You'll have to do much better than that. And I'm perfectly content with the revelation that is in Scripture. Revelation occurs when God speaks to His people truth that applies to all. There is no need for such truth in addition to the Bible. You are treading on dangerous ground, according to Rev. 22:18-19.

 

[John of Japan]

Well, now, since Seeker has given his testimony and that of others (none of which speak of souls being saved, the very purpose Christ came to earth), I'll give a short version of mine.

Coincidentally, I too was at Tennessee Temple U. (then a college) when Seeker was--1972 to 1976 (after being two years at another school), graduating in '76. I'm sure I could find him in the annual from those years, which I still have. I then going to Temple Seminary for a semester before going off to work for my grandfather for a year. Then it was off on deputation to go to Japan as a missionary in 1981, meeting my wife and having a son along the way.

I remember TTC as a time of continuous revival under Dr. Lee Roberson. Sure, I occasionally saw some legalism, but that exists everywhere you go. (In fact, remember that Seeker has already called me a legalist on this thread for saying it's a sin to disobey Jesus! ) I remember hearing such greatly used preachers as R. G. Lee preaching "Payday Someday," Richard Wurmbrand (author of Tortured for Christ), E. J. Daniels preaching "God's Three Deadlines," John R. Rice preaching on prayer, and many others.

And the missions emphasis was inspiring. It was in my first semester there that God called me to Japan under the preaching of a good missionary from there. I have never regretted for a single second answering that call and going to Japan for 33 years. The missions conference there would have up to 200 missionary displays, with such God-used missionaries as Don Cisk of Japan, the Corley twins to the Navahos, Dr. Jacob Gartenhaus the Jewish evangelist, and many others. It was incredibly inspiring to one who loved Jesus.

Dr. Roberson himself was so gracious. He visited every single person in that megachurch who went into the hospital (he visited me there) or had other problems. His goal was to make 10 visits a day to lost people when he was in town.

After leaving my grandfather's ministry and starting deputation to go to Japan, it took me 3 1/2 years for God to give the necessary support. Deputation in the "faith missions" model means traveling to churches and presenting your future ministry there. During that time, it was all on faith. I did not ask one single time for money, not a single penny. Yet God brought it all in, enough to live in that very expensive country. It would take too long to detail the answers to prayer received at that time.

All of those years in Japan God took great care of us. After 33 years, the Holy Spirit led in a special, miraculous way (which I will not share here) to come back to the States to train future missionaries and pastors and evangelists and preachers' wives. I had gotten an MA in Biblical Studies in 2005 along with our only son, who then went on for an MDiv and a PhD in NT. We have the glorious privilege of teaching side by side here at our Bible college.

At our "organized religion" church we see prayers answered all the time (just had a big one), which glorifies Christ. We see people saved all the time, which glorifies Christ. We see humble souls bowing at the altar in dedication to the Lord. However, in al of the anti-"organized religion" testimonies Seeker has seen fit to include, not a single soul is saved, not a single testimony about a miracle is there, and not a single prayer is answered. That sounds like churchianity to me, not victorious Christian living that glorifies Christ. It all sounds pretty self-focused, like this--"How wonderful that I was able to find the true way of doing church."

 

[Seeker of the Source]

Be careful about being outside the camp. . . . People who lived outside the camp were unclean and removed from fellowship.
. . .

Notice then the reason why Jesus was outside the camp and why we follow. Jesus was killed outside the camp as our atoning sacrifice. . . . .

Hebrews 13:13
Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured.

I do not think you are understanding that God calls us to be members of a local body . . .

First off you're confusing things here stating New Testament believers are to be equated with Hebrews in the wilderness.

Next, yes Jesus was murdered outside the camp. And we are to "go out to Him and also "bear the reproach He endured." As I said before we are to leave the blinded religious systems of the world. As the Jews were a blinded system that thought they were doing God a favor, so they murdered the Lord Jesus. Today's blinded religious systems are no different than the Jews of Jesus's day. It was all confusion then and it is all confusion still today. People choosing to remain in a religious system are continually brainwashed by the system they adhere to.

Lastly, I have no misunderstanding concerning God calling one to a local expression of the ekklesia. However He does not call us into the local clergy-laity pastoral system that is of man's design and perpetuated by the effort and energy of man. God may indeed secure salvation of people in this flawed system but they never learn their true function in the Lord's body. Instead they join the choir, teach Sunday school or volunteer to be a cog in the wheel of the system. They never experience what the Lord has for them as a member of the living Body of Christ. Only outside of the system in real living worship can the individual members of the ekklesia experience the supernatural workings of the Spirit expressing in all its fullness the Body of Christ under the Headship of Christ alone.

No printed programs for a worship service need be passed out. The Spirit guides the whole thing. It is a wondrous thing beyond mere words' ability to explain.

This is our being "outside the camp" and even in reproach we find a singular joy in His presence.

 

[AustinC]

First off you're confusing things here stating New Testament believers are to be equated with Hebrews in the wilderness.

Next, yes Jesus was murdered outside the camp. And we are to "go out to Him and also "bear the reproach He endured." As I said before we are to leave the blinded religious systems of the world. As the Jews were a blinded system that thought they were doing God a favor, so they murdered the Lord Jesus. Today's blinded religious systems are no different than the Jews of Jesus's day. It was all confusion then and it is all confusion still today. People choosing to remain in a religious system are continually brainwashed by the system they adhere to.

Lastly, I have no misunderstanding concerning God calling one to a local expression of the ekklesia. However He does not call us into the local clergy-laity pastoral system that is of man's design and perpetuated by the effort and energy of man. God may indeed secure salvation of people in this flawed system but they never learn their true function in the Lord's body. Instead they join the choir, teach Sunday school or volunteer to be a cog in the wheel of the system. They never experience what the Lord has for them as a member of the living Body of Christ. Only outside of the system in real living worship can the individual members of the ekklesia experience the supernatural workings of the Spirit expressing in all its fullness the Body of Christ under the Headship of Christ alone.

No printed programs for a worship service need be passed out. The Spirit guides the whole thing. It is a wondrous thing beyond mere words' ability to explain.

This is our being "outside the camp" and even in reproach we find a singular joy in His presence.

We will disagree in that we, the church, are the Israel of God. We can learn much from God's ordinance of life in the 40 years of wandering. The church makes up that camp today.
Second, the structure of elders and deacons can function in many ways. God does not have a rigid system as you demand. One method is not, by ordinance, more Godward than another. You are making your argument from silence, which ultimately is legalistic rather than gracious.
Hebrews expression of being outside the camp does not apply to your claim at all. It is your attempt to pridefully express your approach as Godward while castigating others in the body of Christ. Your accusation of the brothers should give you pause.
I welcome both house churches and organized churches. They are embassies where we hear a message from our King. In that, I rejoice.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

No printed programs for a worship service need be passed out. The Spirit guides the whole thing.

I assume you've never attended a Russian Evangelical Christian-Baptist meeting. No printed programs, but everyone pretty much knew the order of service. While they have designated pastors, the preaching is rotated through qualified brothers. Mind you, they have three preachers in each service.

 

[Seeker of the Source]

I assume you've never attended a Russian Evangelical Christian-Baptist meeting. No printed programs, but everyone pretty much knew the order of service. While they have designated pastors, the preaching is rotated through qualified brothers. Mind you, they have three preachers in each service.

Interesting.

I once went to a Primitive Baptist church service. They had three "preachers/elders" who all sat up front on the raised stage ready to speak. If the Spirit so lead them, they would testify. If not, there was no message. There was no printed program and the mournful singing was spontaneous. There was no altar call. In that denomination you only "joined the church and got baptized" if you had a supernatural sign, dream, or vision that the Lord had called you. Then and only then you notified the elders of such. My dear grandmother refused to hear me speak of simply accepting Jesus as Savior. She said, "When He calls me, then I will receive Him." She waited until her mid-80s before she came to the Lord after a dream. She was later baptized in a swift-flowing and very cold mountain stream. What a marvelous thing to witness. All the flock at the baptism, except me and my family were dressed in white robes. What a memory . . .

 

[canadyjd]

Interesting......In that denomination you only "joined the church and got baptized" if you had a supernatural sign, dream, or vision that the Lord had called you. Then and only then you notified the elders of such. . . .

Is there any biblical support for such?

peace to you

 

[Seeker of the Source]

Is there any biblical support for such?

peace to you

I can only think of one passage that might actually agree with this belief:
Galatians 1: 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Paul never sought after salvation as far as I know, being a good Jew -- he simply encountered Jesus face-to-face and -- BAM! -- he was converted.

 

[John of Japan]

Interesting.

I once went to a Primitive Baptist church service. They had three "preachers/elders" who all sat up front on the raised stage ready to speak. If the Spirit so lead them, they would testify. If not, there was no message. There was no printed program and the mournful singing was spontaneous. There was no altar call. In that denomination you only "joined the church and got baptized" if you had a supernatural sign, dream, or vision that the Lord had called you. Then and only then you notified the elders of such. My dear grandmother refused to hear me speak of simply accepting Jesus as Savior. She said, "When He calls me, then I will receive Him." She waited until her mid-80s before she came to the Lord after a dream. She was later baptized in a swift-flowing and very cold mountain stream. What a marvelous thing to witness. All the flock at the baptism, except me and my family were dressed in white robes. What a memory . . .

Yes, and the Primitive Baptists also oppose the Great Commission as you appear to. My grandfather once tried to talk to two young men about their eternal souls, and their own father prevented this conversation about Jesus Christ. That is utterly shameful. Other hyper-Calvinists also oppose the Great Commission, though normal Calvinists believe in obeying it.

Ultra-dispensationalists also believe the Great Commission is not for us, though they do not believe it is wrong to witness for Christ. Therefore, they teach disobedience to the Great Commission is okay. However, Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).

 

[Seeker of the Source]

Yes, and the Primitive Baptists also oppose the Great Commission as you appear to. . . .

John, please do not say this type of thing about me again. It is just unfair and you KNOW it is. If you persist in such unkind aspersions, your profile will be set on "Ignore" as I have already done to others here who don't behave in a Christ-like nor a reasonable & logical manner.

 

[canadyjd]

I can only think of one passage that might actually agree with this belief:
Galatians 1: 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Paul never sought after salvation as far as I know, being a good Jew -- he simply encountered Jesus face-to-face and -- BAM! -- he was converted.

It seems to be a stretch to believe the appearance of Christ to Saul/Paul to be the standard experience for all Christians.

I met someone who claimed to have met Jesus Face to Face “as real as I’m talking to you now” was how he put it. I’m skeptical, but since he didn’t offer any “revelation” contrary to scripture, who am I to deny another man’s spiritual experience?

peace to you

 

[Seeker of the Source]

It seems to be a stretch to believe the appearance of Christ to Saul/Paul to be the standard experience for all Christians.

I met someone who claimed to have met Jesus Face to Face “as real as I’m talking to you now” was how he put it. I’m skeptical, but since he didn’t offer any “revelation” contrary to scripture, who am I to deny another man’s spiritual experience?

peace to you

Paul did indeed have an unusual encounter -- still he discusses in Galatians 1 an inward revelation of Christ -- which I believe could conceivably happen to anyone the Lord so chooses sovereignly to reveal Himself -- beyond our expectations.

I have heard personal testimony and read of many Islamic people having visions of the Lord Jesus that resulted in their conversion. It can happen within God's will irregardless of what we might choose to believe.

Peace to you too.

 

[John of Japan]

John, please do not say this type of thing about me again. It is just unfair and you KNOW it is. If you persist in such unkind aspersions, your profile will be set on "Ignore" as I have already done to others here who don't behave in a Christ-like nor a reasonable & logical manner.

Tell you what, you tell me what I said that was wrong or offensive, and I'll apologize.

In my thinking, I was perfectly logical. You objected to being told that it is a sin to disobey Jesus. Therefore, you do not believe that it is incumbent on Christians to obey the Great Commission. So if I say that is like the hyper-Calvinists or the ultra-dispensationalists, how am I wrong? Now, how can I know "it is just unfair" if you don't tell me. My thinking seems very logical to me.

I'd be happy for you to straighten me out about what you really believe if I've got it wrong.

I have to say, though, that the Great Commission is something incredibly important to me, being Christ's last command. I feel you have "dissed" it. But it is not me to whom you have to answer for that. It's the Lord Jesus who gave it.

 

[Seeker of the Source]

Tell you what, you tell me what I said that was wrong or offensive, and I'll apologize.

In my thinking, I was perfectly logical. You objected to being told that it is a sin to disobey Jesus. Therefore, you do not believe that it is incumbent on Christians to obey the Great Commission. So if I say that is like the hyper-Calvinists or the ultra-dispensationalists, how am I wrong? Now, how can I know "it is just unfair" if you don't tell me. My thinking seems very logical to me.

I'd be happy for you to straighten me out about what you really believe if I've got it wrong.

I have explained to you before that I don't see the supposed "Great Commission" as a command but it is more of a statement, a declaration of what the Lord knew would happen via the ekklesia like "breathing" and that He would be with us until the end of the age.

We will go, we will make disciples, we will baptize.

I evangelized my soon-to-be wife for months, she found Jesus at a Keith Green concert I urged her to attend and later on -- I baptized her as my young wife. It was glorious! I didn't follow any "commission" -- as I loved her and the Spirit in me caused me to share the bible with her. It was life and NOT law. I am not a sinner and I do not withhold the Gospel from anyone. So just LET IT GO about your great commission-tinted glasses.

The Great Commission? That's not even a biblical term. Wiki says, "It is not known who coined the term Great Commission, which was popularized by Hudson Taylor." So a missionary to China popularized it -- not God -- it is an earthly concept created by men and their theology schools. Just because professors, preachers and missionaries like the terminology it is NOT doctrine that we must knee-jerk obey. God lays people on our hearts -- we do not just go because somebody teaches us that it is a 24/7/365 given. We testify and disciple when the Spirit leads us -- not according to some preset evangelistic thrust of the soul and mind. We are to be lead by the Spirit and not by our soulish leanings to just "do something godly" that seems right to us.

And what of logic? You are simply approaching the bible in a legalistic vs. a logical frame of mind -- and you cannot help yourself to therefore so judge others according to your own law-based standards. God doesn't actually care about our lock-tight logic or how well we study and worship the bible cover to cover. He cares about our worshiping Him in Spirit and Truth. He wants obedience and not sacrificing ourselves to tenets of well-meaning men -- past and present.

Legalism? It's one of the main reasons I could barely breathe at Tennessee Temple University. I would sit in that huge church building's sanctuary after hours and weep. I felt so guilty, ungodly and so worthless. And then it was the same reason why I left the Independent Fundamental Baptist church where I worked. It was a deadness creeping into me and God got me out. A deacon there even demanded back an item from me he had given me as he didn't want to be somehow wishing me god-speed when I left. Unbelievable!

Then years later I gave it another go with a moderate Baptist church for 14 years but after a church split and suffering under the poor leadership of a non-spiritual pastor -- the Spirit said, "Have you had enough?" Even my youngest daughter asked me why I was still there in the choir, teaching a Sunday School class, etc. She knew my heart about the ekklesia and I couldn't answer her. From the mouth of babes -- and eventually my wife and I left -- delivering 14, two and half page letters to all the various ministers and dear friends there as to why we were leaving It was painful but we finally left.

So that's about all I have to say. I don't care about hyper-Calvinists nor ultra-dispensationalists either. Their so-called logic is worthless to God. And frankly, I don't need your apology or even a response as I am so done with this "Great Commission" diatribe.

 

[canadyjd]

Paul did indeed have an unusual encounter -- still he discusses in Galatians 1 an inward revelation of Christ -- which I believe could conceivably happen to anyone the Lord so chooses sovereignly to reveal Himself -- beyond our expectations.

I have heard personal testimony and read of many Islamic people having visions of the Lord Jesus that resulted in their conversion. It can happen within God's will irregardless of what we might choose to believe.

Peace to you too.

I always try to base what I believe on scripture. I do believe it is God’s revelation to us.

I’m surprised you have never heard of the Great Commission. Do you not find any guidance in scripture concerning the church?

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

I have explained to you before that I don't see the supposed "Great Commission" as a command but it is more of a statement, a declaration of what the Lord knew would happen via the ekklesia like "breathing" and that He would be with us until the end of the age.

We will go, we will make disciples, we will baptize.

I evangelized my soon-to-be wife for months, she found Jesus at a Keith Green concert I urged her to attend and later on -- I baptized her as my young wife. It was glorious! I didn't follow any "commission" -- as I loved her and the Spirit in me caused me to share the bible with her. It was life and NOT law. I am not a sinner and I do not withhold the Gospel from anyone. So just LET IT GO about your great commission-tinted glasses.

The Great Commission? That's not even a biblical term. Wiki says, "It is not known who coined the term Great Commission, which was popularized by Hudson Taylor." So a missionary to China popularized it -- not God -- it is an earthly concept created by men and their theology schools. Just because professors, preachers and missionaries like the terminology it is NOT doctrine that we must knee-jerk obey. God lays people on our hearts -- we do not just go because somebody teaches us that it is a 24/7/365 given. We testify and disciple when the Spirit leads us -- not according to some preset evangelistic thrust of the soul and mind. We are to be lead by the Spirit and not by our soulish leanings to just "do something godly" that seems right to us.

And what of logic? You are simply approaching the bible in a legalistic vs. a logical frame of mind -- and you cannot help yourself to therefore so judge others according to your own law-based standards. God doesn't actually care about our lock-tight logic or how well we study and worship the bible cover to cover. He cares about our worshiping Him in Spirit and Truth. He wants obedience and not sacrificing ourselves to tenets of well-meaning men -- past and present.

Legalism? It's one of the main reasons I could barely breathe at Tennessee Temple University. I would sit in that huge church building's sanctuary after hours and weep. I felt so guilty, ungodly and so worthless. And then it was the same reason why I left the Independent Fundamental Baptist church where I worked. It was a deadness creeping into me and God got me out. A deacon there even demanded back an item from me he had given me as he didn't want to be somehow wishing me god-speed when I left. Unbelievable!

Then years later I gave it another go with a moderate Baptist church for 14 years but after a church split and suffering under the poor leadership of a non-spiritual pastor -- the Spirit said, "Have you had enough?" Even my youngest daughter asked me why I was still there in the choir, teaching a Sunday School class, etc. She knew my heart about the ekklesia and I couldn't answer her. From the mouth of babes -- and eventually my wife and I left -- delivering 14, two and half page letters to all the various ministers and dear friends there as to why we were leaving It was painful but we finally left.

So that's about all I have to say. I don't care about hyper-Calvinists nor ultra-dispensationalists either. Their so-called logic is worthless to God. And frankly, I don't need your apology or even a response as I am so done with this "Great Commission" diatribe.

I see. I do commend you on your soon-to-be-wife's salvation, etc. Congratulations.

1. So you totally reject the fact that the Greek has the imperative--a command--in the Great Commission. Your attempt at translation is totally mistaken. I translated the entire NT into Japanese, and teach Bible translation at the seminary level. As they used to say, "Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs."
2. My belief that we must follow the commands of Christ is not legalism. That's a ridiculous charge born out of ignorance of theology.
3. The term "Great Commission" not being in the Bible? That's actually your argument? Neither is "trinity," etc. etc. And you get that about Hudson Taylor from often mistaken Wikipedia? College profs don't allow their students to cite it because it is so often mistaken.
4. Sorry about your experience at Temple. But I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for your tears if you didn't simply transfer, like I did to Temple from a different school. I've met many graduates and have many for friends, but they did not have your experience. Met one just the other day who loved Dr. Lee Roberson just as I do.

Tell you what. I'll just leave your thread. Okay? You've not answered several of my arguments anyway, and I doubt if you can. Have a good one.

 

[Seeker of the Source]

I always try to base what I believe on scripture. I do believe it is God’s revelation to us.

I’m surprised you have never heard of the Great Commission. Do you not find any guidance in scripture concerning the church?

peace to you

God's revelation goes beyond the bible alone. He actively communicates and leads us by His Spirit. He also speaks to us by other members of the Body of Christ. We must awaken to these truths.

Of course I have heard of the GC. I just don't worship or respect the GC as a doctrine. It is merely a description of what the ekklesia would do. It was never a law or a command. Jesus was not christening some great boat of Christianity to sail forth and conquer the world.

And of course the bible teaches us about the nature and function of the ekklesia. But again the ekklesia is under the Headship of the Lord Jesus -- not under a man nor a man made doctrine. The ekklesia follows no Statement of Faith nor an Apostles Creed. She is a divine entity belonging to God and no earthly fetters created by men.

Peace to you. May the Lord give you His full revelation of the ekklesia.

 

[SGO]

Like you have a revelation?
How can others ascertain your truth?
What scripture can they check?

Bereans searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
Acts 17:10

Prove all things.
1 Thessalonians 5:21

...try the spirits whether they are of God.
1John 4:1

Do you consider yourself to be a prophet?

Why did you change your name on this forum?

 

[canadyjd]

God's revelation goes beyond the bible alone. He actively communicates and leads us by His Spirit. He also speaks to us by other members of the Body of Christ. We must awaken to these truths......

The Bible is God’s truth; given to us by God to test the “spirits”; to compare the claims of revelation by folks professing the name of Jesus.

I get the sense that you and others in the movement oppose anything the “church” has adopted as corrupted by men. By doing this, you are rejecting policies and practice that was put into place by the Apostles of Jesus Christ.

peace to you