When did John the Baptist Get saved?

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Posted by Salamander
You obviously don't know the difference between Paradise/Abraham's Bosom and Heaven.

I know you didn't say this to me, but wouldn't you agree, Salamander, that this is not agreed on by all Christians. There is a lot of disagreement on Paradise, where it is, Paradise vs. heaven, etc. I don't think the Bible is that clear on it. </font>[/QUOTE]If you would follow the harmony and flow of the passages dealing with Jesus going to the innermost parts of the earth taking the keys away from satan and leading captivity away captive/ the O.T. saints, including John the Baptist, (when he got saved, BTW) you would have no confusion over the matter.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
"Rapture" (caught up) and "resurrection" are two entirely different things. I generally don't use the word "rapture", because transporting someone from one place to another (usually with heaven in mind) is only a minor definition of the word. (I also don't use "mansion" very often, since it never appears in the Bible, either.) But, whether you use "caught up" or "rapture", in modern English, it means the same thing.

But, etymologically, it's from an obsolete French word that means "abduction", or "carrying off", from rapt, which means "carried away", which is from Old French "rat", which is from Latin "raptus", which means precisely what the Greek "caught up" means.

Perhaps we should all make it a point to use "caught up" from now on, so we don't offend Brother Bob.

(BTW, I know you're older than I am, but I was using my teacher's voice...)

If he gets offended it would be because of his continual denial of the definition of rapture and due to his demand of the specific term spelled out in the Bible. But then he would have to speak ONLY words found in the Bible to maintain that stance and ONLY speak passages of the Bible. That would be pretty hard for him to do when he ordered a cheezeburger and fries now wouldn't it?

 

[mima]

Back to addressing the question in this blog. John the Baptist did not experience salvation like you and I have. No rather John the Baptist was already "saved" filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit without which no man can be saved, before he came of his mother's womb. Therefore he was not in need of salvation after birth like you and I were. And also of course the Lord Jesus Christ did not need to be saved. So in actuality we have two people who were born already in a condition of acceptance to the Father,

 

[Salamander]

So you estimate that another man is equal to Jesus???

Since JtB preached repentence, he must be first partaker of the same fruit, IOW, he must have repented sometime in life, not before life.

Jesus is the Son of God. He is Righteousness. He preached righteousness.

To say any man born of a woman and not Fathered by the Holy Spirit and doesn't need to be saved is extrabiblical and cannot be true.

Jesus is God. John the Baptist was a man sent from God. I wouldn't confuse the two.

 

[Bro Tony]

Mima,

You are on dangerous ground here. John was not born saved, no one is born saved. John was a sinner saved by grace just like all people. He would certainly be counted among the OT saints as he died before Christ. He was saved by grace through faith like us all. He needed a Savior just like we all do. If John is equal to Jesus why would John have to proclaim of another "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"--why couldn't he just do it and save Jesus the trouble.

Bro Tony

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
I "Assumed", incorrectly quite obviously, that ya'll understood that Jesus's flesh/blood was "Spiritual food/drink" to sustain life.

And the "Lust of the flesh" is the food that keeps satan alive in the world today, if no one sinned, satan wouldn't be "Alive" in the world.

This is allegorization at its height. Since when to you have the right to be so gnostic, claiming to have knowledge the rest of us don't know? Your arrogant 55 years doesn't cut it. Many cult leaders grew to be a ripe old age also.

"If no one sinned Satan wouldn't be alive today."
Can you demonstrate that through Scripture." My Bible indicates that Satan was both created and fell before man was even created.

"Meat/tater sustain the life of the flesh, Jesus's "parable" of his flesh/blood is symbolic of food for the spirit/soul." (M4H)

You are not even making any sense here. That which is food for our spirit is the Word of God.

To the carnal mind, it won't make any sense, that's why they asked, "how can he give us his flesh to eat".

You are still not making any sense nor addressing the rebuttal. They replied in such a way because at that point they didn't completely understand what Jesus meant. Many people still don't. I believe you are one of them.

and so is giving Satan "Dust" (flesh) to eat. What kind of heresy are you advocating here? Like I said you can make the Bible say anything that you want if you try hard enough. Since when does dust equal flesh in the Bible?

Since words have a meaning/connection that explains the scripture, Adam made from dust/satan eating dust, wasn't written by "Accident".

You are right on one account. Words have meanings. So why are you making them say other than what they plainly mean? Again your heretical gnosticism shws through. You are claiming a knowlege for yourself that no one but you knows. That is gnosticism. The Bible does not equate dust to flesh. Words have meanings and that is not one of them. Adam was made from the dust of the ground. That is true. But to equate that to "flesh" with the rest of the Bible is a gross misinterpretation. Have you ever heard of hermeneutics? Perhaps you should study it.

Does Eliajh have "TWO SOULS", one to occupy his original body and the resurrected body of John the Baptist????

Understand what the resurrection is all about. The resurrection always refers to the body--always. The spirit never dies. DHK

Yes but Elijah spirit occupied two different bodies, are both of them going to be resurected???

Can you prove that? Elijah's body was taken into heaven. He was translated. He did not see death. So what other body did he occupy?

I think Ya'll are in "over your heads", but at least, ya found out there more to scripture than just those "words on the paper".

The words on paper that you seem to laugh at and mock are God's revelation to mankind. Are you sure you want to laugh at that?
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

edited for personal attack

[ May 19, 2006, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[Hope of Glory]

He is using Scripture as much as you are; he's using it in English and using English words that are translated from Greek/Hebrew words that are most certainly in the Scriptures.

 

[Brother Bob]

BTW, the Church is never ressurrected, it ain't never died! It is called away to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.[/b]

(How do you think it became the Church. It is pitiful what you believe.)

Your poor theology is why so many intelligent people turn away from you.

(That leaves you out for you still here.

)

You can dance around the issue all you want, but your study is not approved before God or man.[/b]

( I don't really think you would know anything about that sal.)

The Bible is quite clear, you're partly cloudy.

(But you said you went outside of the Bible to get your understanding so how would you know.)

And although your picture does indicate a proud stance, I wouldn't try to compare my position with such an honourable man as Patton if I were you, but just to set you straight about something else, it was General MacArthur that said , "I shall return".

( What did you do read blackbird's post where he has already brought that to my attention. I don''t want to be like Patton, I think you are more like him really. He slapped his men, cursed them etc, sounds more like your style to me but I could be wrong just going by your posts on here.)

When was John the Baptist saved?
answer; He was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, and he was saved when he baptized our Lord for an unsaved person certainly could not fulfill a righteous act.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Sal; Where is indwelt in the Scriptues also being you are teaching me? So far the score is 0 on your part.

Also, I have to go to church again but will continue when I return.

Please do some studying while I am gone and please read about the souls under the altar of God while you are at it. Also a number that no man could number clothed in white in Heaven. As Patton said; I Shall Return!!!

Obviously you haven't read the whole Bible.

Ezekiel 36:27 (prophesied)And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Luke 17:21 (Fulfilled)Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Now you do believe that the Holy Ghost is in His own Kingdom don't you?

Being filled with the Spirit is having the flesh in complete subjection and obeying from the heart the promptings of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

John was NOT walking in the Spirit when he caved into the flesh and doubted whom he had baptized as the Lamb of God.

Also, persons indwelt by the Spirit can grieve the Spirit, but then they are not filled with the Spirit because then two masters would be holding the same throne: the Spirit and the flesh, and no flesh can stand in the presence of the Spirit.

You really do need to lay your teaching to the side and pick up your Bible more often.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:

personal attack was edited.

Everything you just said is a lie.

[ May 19, 2006, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Salamander:
If you'll take the time to explain the sealing of the Spirit of Promise and compare that with being filled with the Spirit you would find out that it is an admonishment to all believers, saved believers, to be filled with the Spirit because they either are not controlled by the Spirit or they should be more often.

If you will take the time to study Romans and 1 Corinthians, you'll see that unless you have the Spirit of God, you are none of His. John had the Spirit of God even from the womb, so he was already His then.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with John being filled with the Spirit. The admonition to believers is to be filled with the Spirit, and controlled by the Spirit -- but it's an admonition not only to believers, but to believers who are running around OUTSIDE the womb. If you're going to use that argument, however, then you just proved that John the Baptist was not only a believer inside the womb, but that he was an obedient believer inside the womb. Silly, but that's your take, not mine.

Originally posted by Salamander:
BTW, when did JtB get saved?

I'll ask God if you like, when I get to heaven. Until then, I assume he was saved in the womb. Bob says he was saved at the point of baptism. Maybe he's right, I don't know. Frankly, it's not all that important to me when John the Baptist was saved.

 

[Salamander]

(But you said you went outside of the Bible to get your understanding so how would you know.)

Another one of your lies.

( What did you do read blackbird's post where he has already brought that to my attention. I don''t want to be like Patton, I think you are more like him really. He slapped his men, cursed them etc, sounds more like your style to me but I could be wrong just going by your posts on here.)

Blackbird either posted after me or I just overlooked it.

I'm glad you have so righteously judged me

but you should judge something for yourself; like no one is agreeing with you that John was never lost, except those who don't know any better. And they are limited to only two that I've seen.

(How do you think it became the Church. It is pitiful what you believe.)

Ok, so now you're calling the Word of God "pitiful".

I know how the Bride of Christ/ the Church came into existence:,

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now show me where the Church ever died and where the Church was ever ressurected, either or both!

 

[webdog]

I'll ask God if you like, when I get to heaven. Until then, I assume he was saved in the womb. Bob says he was saved at the point of baptism. Maybe he's right, I don't know. Frankly, it's not all that important to me when John the Baptist was saved.

No need to ask God when you get to Heaven, we should know now. JtB was saved by God's grace, through faith, in the same manner as EVERY human being is. Embryo's and zygotes don't have faith, as faith comes by hearing (understanding) and that from the Word of God. Basic stuff.

 

[Salamander]

for an unsaved person certainly could not fulfill a righteous act.

Happens all the time. Many a lost person has done what the Spirit has commanded: tithed,honoured their mother and father, never bore fasle witness against their neighbor, never coveted their neighbor's wife, etc., etc.

Just simply based upon the Word of God: John receiving the Words of Christ that the Gospel was being fulfilled and that he died before the Jesus gave up the Ghost is enough for me, that John was not even yet saved when he baptized our Saviour.

 

[Salamander]

If you will take the time to study Romans and 1 Corinthians, you'll see that unless you have the Spirit of God, you are none of His. John had the Spirit of God even from the womb, so he was already His then.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with John being filled with the Spirit. The admonition to believers is to be filled with the Spirit, and controlled by the Spirit -- but it's an admonition not only to believers, but to believers who are running around OUTSIDE the womb. If you're going to use that argument, however, then you just proved that John the Baptist was not only a believer inside the womb, but that he was an obedient believer inside the womb. Silly, but that's your take, not mine.

What you just stated is not "my take". It is neither what I said.

Repeatedly, the being controlled by the Spirit is being filled with the Spirit.

"Having the Spirit" is the indwelling of the Spirit/ sealing of the Spirit/ abiding of the Spirit, whereby we cry "Abba, Father" by the Spirit that beareth witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. And where the Spirit is there is liberty. Liberty to satisfy God, not liberty to satisfy the lusts of the flesh.

The key here is that difference between filled and indwelling.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Salamander:
The key here is that difference between filled and indwelling.

You know, aside from watching reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard, I can think of no bigger waste of time than to discuss things with someone who strains out a gnat and swallows a camel. Enjoy.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, I see I have been edited again and really don't remember what I said. If it was wrong then it should be edited but I see where others keep calling me a liar and none of that is edited so It just don't see to be on a equal playing field. But that as it may be.

The believers that make up the Church were resurrected from a dead state unto a lively Hope, so that is the resurrection I spoke of.

As far as others believing what I do that is up to them I merely posted the Scriptures and you are denying them, simple as that. I am saying what Jesus said about John and you say different. I will stay with Jesus. As far as an unsaved person baptizing our Lord I just don't accept and the Bible does not teach so. You can rattle on all you want but don't make it so. Now I guess this will be edited also.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Well, I see I have been edited again and really don't remember what I said. If it was wrong then it should be edited but I see where others keep calling me a liar and none of that is edited so It just don't see to be on a equal playing field. But that as it may be.

The believers that make up the Church were resurrected from a dead state unto a lively Hope, so that is the resurrection I spoke of.

As far as others believing what I do that is up to them I merely posted the Scriptures and you are denying them, simple as that. I am saying what Jesus said about John and you say different. I will stay with Jesus. As far as an unsaved person baptizing our Lord I just don't accept and the Bible does not teach so. You can rattle on all you want but don't make it so. Now I guess this will be edited also.

If pointing out your lies is calling you names you are wrong.

 

[Brother Bob]

They are not lies but you calling them lies is a lie. lets see which one gets edited now.