When is "fulness of the Gentiles"

Luk 1:32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Amillennialism: (Also known as Nonmillennialism). Although this belief system was present from the early days of Christianity, St. Augustine (354 - 430 CE) was largely responsible for the establishment of amillennialism as formal church belief. It remained the generally accepted system throughout Christianity until the 19th century. Many mainline Protestant denominations -- including many Reformed theologians and some Baptists -- still teach Amillennialism. They believe that the Kingdom of God is present in the world today through the presence of the the heavenly reign of Christ, the Bible, the Holy Spirit and Christianity. Both good and evil will continue in the world until the current Church Age ends suddenly as Christ returns to the sky above the earth. The Rapture follows. The Redeemed are transported to heaven where they will adopt spiritual bodies. The majority of humanity will be sent to Hell at this time for eternal punishment. The world will be abandoned. History is no more. Under this belief system, we are currently living in the Millennium and in the Tribulation period. Events described in The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) and in most of the book of Revelation are seen as occurrences which have already happened, or which are symbolic in nature and not to be taken literally. The Antichrist is looked upon figuratively and not as a real person

I am not alone.

BBob,

 

Figured you knew better Ed. All of you MK eschatologist can't even agree with each other. You have pre-trib, post-trib, pre-mil, post mil, pre-trib, post-trib, Historical Premillennialism:, Dispensationalism, Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Pre-wrath RapturePartial, RapturePreterism.

PREACH IT!!!, WHICH ONE????


Luk 1:32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Amillennialism: (Also known as Nonmillennialism). Although this belief system was present from the early days of Christianity, St. Augustine (354 - 430 CE) was largely responsible for the establishment of amillennialism as formal church belief. It remained the generally accepted system throughout Christianity until the 19th century. Many mainline Protestant denominations -- including many Reformed theologians and some Baptists -- still teach Amillennialism. They believe that the Kingdom of God is present in the world today through the presence of the the heavenly reign of Christ, the Bible, the Holy Spirit and Christianity. Both good and evil will continue in the world until the current Church Age ends suddenly as Christ returns to the sky above the earth. The Rapture follows. The Redeemed are transported to heaven where they will adopt spiritual bodies. The majority of humanity will be sent to Hell at this time for eternal punishment. The world will be abandoned. History is no more. Under this belief system, we are currently living in the Millennium and in the Tribulation period. Events described in The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) and in most of the book of Revelation are seen as occurrences which have already happened, or which are symbolic in nature and not to be taken literally. The Antichrist is looked upon figuratively and not as a real person

I am not alone.

BBob

 

So, you seem to admit He is King of the Jews, but not on David's Throne, but that was who was to be their King. I don't understand that kind of logic.

How many Kingdoms do you think there will be, and how many will Jesus sit on eternally.

1Kings 9:
6 "But if you or your sons turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. (1K.9:4-6).

1st Kings chapter 11
4: For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5: For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6: And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

The New Covenant of Redemption and Salvation, of Grace, free, by faith in Jesus Christ (Jer.31:31-34, Heb.8:8-13, Eph.2:8-10):
Nobody could fulfill the Law of Moses, not even Moses!... So, God had a great new idea, a New Covenant... He will put His law in the mind and heart of the believers instead of in stones.The New Covenant rests upon the sacrifice of Christ and secures eternal blessedness for believers.

Fulfilled in Christ by the Blood of Christ, and went into effect at the Last Supper:
This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (Luke 22:20; cf. 1Cor.11:25).
- Condition: By Faith in Christ, without works... but to do good works!, with Christ in the heart of the believer: (Gal.2:20, Jn15:1-7).

Jer 33:21[Then] may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Hbr 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hbr 1:8But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Rev 3:21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Acts, chapter 2
23: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28: Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Here Peter plainly tells us that God raised His Son, from the dead to sit on David's throne.

BBob,

 

I would study some more first!

Acts, chapter 2
23: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28: Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Here Peter plainly tells us that God raised His Son, from the dead to sit on David's throne.


I have been thinking. If I preach the MK is Spiritual and if you die in your sins you can't go to where the Lord is, and when end times come and there is a MK, then those I taught have not missed out on eternal life, but will have a MK also.

If those you teach, that there is a MK coming that people can repent and the ones you teach, decide to wait until the MK to repent and end times come and there is no MK, then all those who waited for the MK to repent, will be in eternal damnation won't they.

BBob, says repent now, why you know you have a chance to, and make it as sure as you can. The early church and I may just be right!!

 

That is a very good response Ed; press on.

BBob,

 

That time has come already. If you die in your sins, where the Lord is, you cannot come. In the 1st Century those who taught a MK, taught that it was a time for all fleshly desires and sensual desires, they dropped that part as time went on. The Jews taught a MK before Christ ever come and the book of Revelations was ever written, some taught it would be a 1000 years and some taught it would be forever. Some claim that the Christians picked up on the Jewish belief and added the "fleshly desires" to try and attract the Jews to Christianity, it was called Chiliasm, I think.


Bbob,

 

According to records I have read, some Jews did indeed teach a 1000 year reign.
I agree that there were those who did not teach a fleshly fulfillment of the flesh and sensual desires, there were those who did teach such, according to records of the past, of which you are quoting from also.

So don't call my history flawed when it is just as good as yours. It is just that you don't want to post the unpopular records and I do.







The Millennium doctrine started in an ungodly heretic by the name of Cerinthus, who lived in the first century. It is true that the Jews generally believed that the Messiah would establish a literal or earthly kingdom. And even some of them believed that Messiah's reign would last a thousand years. We here give an extract from Neander's History of Christian Dogmas, Vol. 1, Page 248.

"The idea of a Millennial reign proceeded from Judaism; for among the Jews the representation was current that the Messiah would reign a thousand years upon earth. . . . Such products of Jewish imagination passed over into Christianity."






​

As before stated, Cerinthus was the first to attempt to introduce this doctrine under Christianity. Let history speak. In Eusebius's Ecclesiastical History, Book III, Chapter 28, is preserved a fragment from the writings of Caius, who lived about the close of the second century, which gives us the following account of Cerinthus's heresy:

"But Cerinthus, too, through revelations written, as he would have us believe, by a great apostle, brings before us marvelous things, which he pretends were shown him by angels; alleging that after the resurrection the kingdom of Christ is to be on earth, and that the flesh dwelling in Jerusalem is again to be subject to desires and pleasures. And being an enemy to the scriptures of God, wishing to deceive men, he says that there is to be space of a thousand years for marriage festivities." "One of the doctrines he taught was, that Christ would have an earthly kingdom."






​

This is the true origin of the Millennium theory. The reader will observe how lightly our author speaks of Cerinthus's idea of the kingdom of Christ being set up on earth after the resurrection. He says this doctrine was "something which he [Cerinthus] pretends was shown to him by angels." Caius must therefore have believed the orthodox teachings of the scriptures, that Christ's kingdom was set up at his first coming. Observe also that Caius calls Cerinthus "an enemy to the scriptures of God," and one who was "wishing to deceive men." This language he uses with special reference to the one thousand years Cerinthus claimed would be spent in sensuality. Notice also that Cerinthus believed in an earthly kingdom.
Cerinthus lived in the days of the apostle John. We will now call your attention to the attitude of the beloved apostle toward this Millennial teacher. Irenaeus, who was born about 120 A. D. and was acquainted with Polycarp, the disciple of John, [Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., V. 24], states that while John was at Ephesus, he entered a bath to wash and found that Cerinthus was within, and refused to bathe in the same bath house, but left the building, and exhorted those with him to do the same, saying, "Let us flee, lest the bath fall in, as long as Cerinthus, that enemy of the truth, is within." (Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., III. 28).

Let this be a rebuke to modern Millennial advocates. They claim their doctrine is well founded in the Apocalypse of John. But John called the founder of their theory "that enemy of the truth."

Source: H. M. Riggle, "History of the Millennium," The Kingdom of God, 1899.

There are other historians who say about the same, and of course there are others which say different.

Ed. Sutton; how do you know that the Gnostic teachings were not the real ones???? Really though, you do understand there were two understandings of the MK in the 1st and 2nd Century, and as still are.

BBob,