When were we Chosen?

[Van]

What Scripture?

1 Peter 2:9-10

 

[canadyjd]

Did God choose individuals through faith in the truth? 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Every poster should answer that question with a yes,…….

I have started a thread on 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

This has been explained to you in detail on many occasions, @Van, but you still insist on mangling the passage in a pathetic attempt to force it to mean God choses us based on our faith in the truth. Just because you repeat the error over and over will never make it true.

The passage states we were chosen for salvation “from the beginning”. That is a complete thought.

It then states “through” sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth.

The word “through” is elaborating on the “salvation”, not the “choosing”

The salvation occurs “through” sanctification of God Holy Spirit (setting apart those chosen for salvation) which leads to faith in the truth.

Even if “through” was referring to the “choosing” which it is not, you must then ignore what is said about “sanctification” of Holy Spirit because that disproves your misguided theology as well.

If the choosing occurs “through” sanctification (setting apart) of the Spirit, then you must acknowledge God has chosen who will have faith in the truth and set them apart.

You must realize that because every time you make this false claim you fail to mention sanctification of God Holy Spirit.

Hey folks!!!, Any time a person must change the meaning of the words of scripture and leave out key passages to make it fit their opinion, and then personally attack the person pointing out the error with scripture… that is a sure sign they are a false teacher.

Peace to you

 

[Tea]

God knows who will believe and who will not, He has this thing in knowing the exact timing to send a Peter, or a Paul, or maybe Tea.

If God intends to reach a lost person at the precise moment in time, then everybody else’s free will choices that lead up to that moment cannot preclude it from happening.

There’s a reason why weather is nearly impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. When a butterfly unexpectedly jumps off a branch and flaps its wings, even those smallest alterations in the wind current can develop into significant, unpredictable results as time goes on, possibly affecting major weather patterns, such as the direction or strength of a tornado.

I compare human decisions to the butterfly effect or chaos theory, although I believe Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park articulates it more effectively than I do.

 

[Charlie24]

If God intends to reach a lost person at the precise moment in time, then everybody else’s free will choices that lead up to that moment cannot preclude it from happening.

There’s a reason why weather is nearly impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. When a butterfly unexpectedly jumps off a branch and flaps its wings, even those smallest alterations in the wind current can develop into significant, unpredictable results as time goes on, possibly affecting major weather patterns, such as the direction or strength of a tornado.

I compare human decisions to the butterfly effect or chaos theory, although I believe Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park articulates it more effectively than I do.

But God also reaches out to those who He knows will not believe.

He said of the Hebrews in the wilderness for 40 years after giving them chance after chance, knowing they would perish in unbelief, "they shall not enter into my rest."

 

[Charlie24]

But God also reaches out to those who He knows will not believe.

He said of the Hebrews in the wilderness for 40 years after giving them chance after chance, knowing they would perish in unbelief, "they shall not enter into my rest."

There's no one in Hell who can't think back to a time when they ignored the calling of God.

Have you ever considered the example of the rich man a Lazarus?

The rich man didn't ask why am I here or I don't belong here, he asked for Lazarus to be sent to his brothers so they would not share his fate.

 

[canadyjd]

….

There’s a reason why weather is nearly impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. When a butterfly unexpectedly jumps off a branch and flaps its wings, even those smallest alterations in the wind current can develop into significant, unpredictable results as time goes on, possibly affecting major weather patterns, such as the direction or strength of a tornado.

Well, sorry, that is simply untrue. 10 million butterflies flapping their wings won’t affect weather patterns. They won’t even change the direction of the wind even slightly.

The biggest influence, by far, on weather patterns is sunspot activity. The heating and cooling of oceans due to sunspot activity, or lack thereof, causes the overwhelming majority of weather patterns.

I know you where making an analogy and I don’t mean to get off topic, but it just isn’t true so it’s a bad analogy

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

I have started a thread on 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

This has been explained to you in detail on many occasions, @Van, but you still insist on mangling the passage in a pathetic attempt to force it to mean God choses us based on our faith in the truth. Just because you repeat the error over and over will never make it true.

The passage states we were chosen for salvation “from the beginning”. That is a complete thought.

It then states “through” sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth.

The word “through” is elaborating on the “salvation”, not the “choosing”

The salvation occurs “through” sanctification of God Holy Spirit (setting apart those chosen for salvation) which leads to faith in the truth.

Even if “through” was referring to the “choosing” which it is not, you must then ignore what is said about “sanctification” of Holy Spirit because that disproves your misguided theology as well.

If the choosing occurs “through” sanctification (setting apart) of the Spirit, then you must acknowledge God has chosen who will have faith in the truth and set them apart.

You must realize that because every time you make this false claim you fail to mention sanctification of God Holy Spirit.

Hey folks!!!, Any time a person must change the meaning of the words of scripture and leave out key passages to make it fit their opinion, and then personally attack the person pointing out the error with scripture… that is a sure sign they are a false teacher.

Peace to you

@canadyjd if you had just read one more verse you would not have made the mistakes you have made.

2Th 2:13 But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.
2Th 2:14 To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Observe the order of Divine grace:

1. They were to hear the truth
2. They were to believe this truth when they heard it preached.
3. They were to receive the Spirit of God in believing the truth.

Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.


Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith,...

For your view to be correct you have to deny clear scripture that was written by the same person. Paul, and think that the Holy Spirit is in conflict with Himself.

 

[canadyjd]

@canadyjd if you had just read one more verse you would not have made the mistakes you have made.

2Th 2:13 But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.
2Th 2:14 To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Observe the order of Divine grace:

1. They were to hear the truth
2. They were to believe this truth when they heard it preached.
3. They were to receive the Spirit of God in believing the truth.

Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.


Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith,...

For your view to be correct you have to deny clear scripture that was written by the same person. Paul, and think that the Holy Spirit is in conflict with Himself.

I do not deny the necessity of the gospel in salvation but you do every time you claim many are saved having never heard the gospel.

And again, I will never need a lecture from you concerning how to understand scripture because your error denies the necessity of the gospel in salvation so don’t waste your time addressing me.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Order of “Divine Grace” found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14…

1. Chosen from the beginning for salvation by God
2..Sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit for salvation
3. Faith in the truth of Jesus Christ

In v.14, the mention of being “called” to this very thing is to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the salvation process and the one and only method God has ordained by which people will be saved… the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Peace to you

 

[Tea]

But God also reaches out to those who He knows will not believe.

Correct.

Acts 17:29-31 (ESV)
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

The basis of their judgement will stem from their rejection of the Risen Savior, but they have to have knowledge of it for God to hold them accountable.

 

[Charlie24]

Correct.

Acts 17:29-31 (ESV)
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

The basis of their judgement will stem from their rejection of the Risen Savior, but they have to have knowledge of it for God to hold them accountable.

That knowledge comes from the hearing of the Gospel through the Great Commission.

God having the desire that all men everywhere repent and come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Reynolds]

1 Peter 2:9-10

Exactly how does that passage support your view?

 

[Silverhair]

I do not deny the necessity of the gospel in salvation but you do every time you claim many are saved having never heard the gospel.

And again, I will never need a lecture from you concerning how to understand scripture because your error denies the necessity of the gospel in salvation so don’t waste your time addressing me.

Peace to you

The fact you still deny clear scripture is really sad. Do you not think that God knows who is saved or not. Do you really think God got it wrong when He took Elijah and Enoch to heaven. Does God take the unsaved to heaven?

When did Elijah or Enoch hear the gospel message?

Your argument is based on your misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God.

So you do not have to believe me but you should believe the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Order of “Divine Grace” found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14…

1. Chosen from the beginning for salvation by God
2..Sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit for salvation
3. Faith in the truth of Jesus Christ

In v.14, the mention of being “called” to this very thing is to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the salvation process and the one and only method God has ordained by which people will be saved… the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Peace to you

You continue to make up your own theory of salvation.

 

[Tea]

That knowledge comes from the hearing of the Gospel through the Great Commission.

God having the desire that all men everywhere repent and come to the knowledge of the truth.

I agree; however, that doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone can respond positively to that knowledge.

God desires that His command to repent be proclaimed to everyone, but He may have the desire to give grace to one group and judge the other on that basis.