When were we Chosen?

[Silverhair]

What is the sequence of events? Was her heart opened because she paid attention to what was said by Paul? Or was her heart opened so that she was able to pay attention to what was said by Paul?

Acts 16:14 (ESV)
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Nobody is saying God is believing for anybody. The only way a person can be saved is by faith in Christ. There are no "various means" that God uses to entice a lost person to believe. It's always been the Gospel.

What was the sequence Tea, was see a worshipper of God before or after He opened her heart to respond to what Paul was saying regarding Jesus

She was already saved Tea.

God doesn't force a person to have faith, but He does give them the ability to have faith, and then they will believe all on their own.

Well since He desires all too come to repentance then we have to conclude that He has given that ability to all people or we have to conclude that He was being less than honest.

John 8:34 (ESV)
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

As a Christian we are slaves to God but does that mean we cannot sin or make choices that do not align withthe will of God?

The natural man only wants to follow their own desires, and yes, God will judge them for their actions. He is perfectly just to leave some the way they are and save some out of mercy.

Under your calvinist system man can only do as God has determined for him to do so even his desires have been determined.

Odd how the calvinist has a different set of rules for each situation that points out the errors of their system.

God could have comdemned all of mankind but He has chosen to show mercy to those that freely trust in Him

If the Father's intention is to universally draw all men to the Son, but the Son will fail to raise up some at the last day, then you've created a contradiction within the triune Godhead. If you take a closer look, you'll see that Jews and Greeks are in view of "all men."

His desire to save all does not conflict with not all being saved. You seem to forget that man has to respond to the various drawings of God. The only way a conflict would arise is if the calvinist divine determination we true.

Yes both Jews and Greek are in view in "ALL MEN" and that would include all of humanity when understood from a biblicl perspective.

God doesn't hold a gun up to a person and tell them to sin or else, but He did create a world where sin was possible, and man will always choose to sin by their own choice.

That is the biblical understanding Tea, when man chooses to sin it is his choice, so of course I would agree with it but what you wrote is not the calvinist divine determinism view.

As do I.

That is not actually true Tea, what you do is point out what does not agree with the calvinist view of scripture. It seems that for the calvinist the bible has to agree with their view or the bible is wrong.

That may sound harsh but that is what I have seem over numerous posts on this and other boards.

I think we should be careful about dismissing others' beliefs as an entirely separate religion. I have no problem saying that some Catholics are saved, but if they are, it is in spite of the RCC, not because of it.

I agree and I think the same when it comes to many calvinists as I am sure many on here think of those of us who do not hold to the DoG/TULIP.

So sometimes Jesus fails to save?

That is what we see in scripture. God will only save those that have freely trusted in Him. Did all those that heard Jesus and knew the OT prophicies trust in Him? No they did not. Did He fail to save them yes but only because they rejected Him as the means of their salvation.

Now if you are asking if He fails to save those that have trusted in Him then the answer is no He does not fail. But He does not save those that do not trust in Him does He.

What I see in Scripture is that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. For everyone else, it results in their salvation perfectly.

Why are some perishing Tea?
1] because they think the gospel is foolish
or
2] because they have not trusted in God.

Answer
It is because they have not trusted in God because they think the gospel is foolishness.
And of course those that do not think the message is foolishness and trust in God will be saved.

But even so we still see that many who hear the gospel message are not save.

Could she have been saved just by being a worshipper of God? What if Paul had not come along with the Gospel message?

That is pure speculation. Many in the OT were saved never hearing the gospel message and we know that many are now coming to faith in the true God through dreams.

We are not in the position to tell God whom or how He can save.

Was Lydia not saved when she was a worshipper of God as we are told in scripture?

That seems to be the dispensational understanding, and I'm not a dispensationalist. Regardless, God always initiates a change in a person's heart without their cooperation needed.

Acts 15:9 (ESV)
And he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Does the word of God change depending on how you want to view it?

God has provided many ways for man to know Him but from what you have just said it would seem that you think God forces men to believe in Him.
That is not a biblical view but as we know it is the calvinist view.

So Paul and David didn't have free will, but everyone else does. How does that work, exactly?

Not what I said Tea. God has chosen a number of men for various tasks as we can see in the biblical text.

How does being chosen for a task negate a persons free will Tea? Judas was chosen to be one of the disciples and yet he betrayed Jesus. Was that because God forced him to do it or was it by his free will. Was God surprised at what Judas did?

Tea if man does not have a free will then all things are determined and you have just made God the ultimate sinner.

I agree. The elect will do exactly that.

So again you fal back to your false calvinism. None are elect until they are in the elect one through faith.

Your theoty has peole saved prior to thme even trusting in God. Not a biblical view but it is calvinism 101.

You may or may not be aware of it, but by definition, synergism requires man to cooperate with God. That's exactly how all of the pagan religions in history operated.

Good thing that trusting in God is not cooperating with Him then isn't it.

We are saved by grace through faith as the bible says. We hear the gospel and believe the gospel and God saves us.

That is not synergism Tea. Well you may call it that but the bible shows that is the means of salvation so you would be at odds with the word of God.

BTW The pagans did works so as to earn good favor with their god. But as you know faith is not a work so again not synergistic.