1 Peter 2:9-10
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When were we Chosen?
- Thread starter Van
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I have started a thread on 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
This has been explained to you in detail on many occasions, @Van, but you still insist on mangling the passage in a pathetic attempt to force it to mean God choses us based on our faith in the truth. Just because you repeat the error over and over will never make it true.
The passage states we were chosen for salvation “from the beginning”. That is a complete thought.
It then states “through” sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth.
The word “through” is elaborating on the “salvation”, not the “choosing”
The salvation occurs “through” sanctification of God Holy Spirit (setting apart those chosen for salvation) which leads to faith in the truth.
Even if “through” was referring to the “choosing” which it is not, you must then ignore what is said about “sanctification” of Holy Spirit because that disproves your misguided theology as well.
If the choosing occurs “through” sanctification (setting apart) of the Spirit, then you must acknowledge God has chosen who will have faith in the truth and set them apart.
You must realize that because every time you make this false claim you fail to mention sanctification of God Holy Spirit.
Hey folks!!!, Any time a person must change the meaning of the words of scripture and leave out key passages to make it fit their opinion, and then personally attack the person pointing out the error with scripture… that is a sure sign they are a false teacher.
Peace to you
Tea
Active Member
If God intends to reach a lost person at the precise moment in time, then everybody else’s free will choices that lead up to that moment cannot preclude it from happening.
There’s a reason why weather is nearly impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. When a butterfly unexpectedly jumps off a branch and flaps its wings, even those smallest alterations in the wind current can develop into significant, unpredictable results as time goes on, possibly affecting major weather patterns, such as the direction or strength of a tornado.
I compare human decisions to the butterfly effect or chaos theory, although I believe Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park articulates it more effectively than I do.
There's no one in Hell who can't think back to a time when they ignored the calling of God.
Have you ever considered the example of the rich man a Lazarus?
The rich man didn't ask why am I here or I don't belong here, he asked for Lazarus to be sent to his brothers so they would not share his fate.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Well, sorry, that is simply untrue. 10 million butterflies flapping their wings won’t affect weather patterns. They won’t even change the direction of the wind even slightly.
The biggest influence, by far, on weather patterns is sunspot activity. The heating and cooling of oceans due to sunspot activity, or lack thereof, causes the overwhelming majority of weather patterns.
I know you where making an analogy and I don’t mean to get off topic, but it just isn’t true so it’s a bad analogy
Peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@canadyjd if you had just read one more verse you would not have made the mistakes you have made.
2Th 2:13 But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.
2Th 2:14 To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Observe the order of Divine grace:
1. They were to hear the truth
2. They were to believe this truth when they heard it preached.
3. They were to receive the Spirit of God in believing the truth.
Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith,...
For your view to be correct you have to deny clear scripture that was written by the same person. Paul, and think that the Holy Spirit is in conflict with Himself.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I do not deny the necessity of the gospel in salvation but you do every time you claim many are saved having never heard the gospel.
And again, I will never need a lecture from you concerning how to understand scripture because your error denies the necessity of the gospel in salvation so don’t waste your time addressing me.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Order of “Divine Grace” found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14…
1. Chosen from the beginning for salvation by God
2..Sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit for salvation
3. Faith in the truth of Jesus Christ
In v.14, the mention of being “called” to this very thing is to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the salvation process and the one and only method God has ordained by which people will be saved… the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Peace to you
1. Chosen from the beginning for salvation by God
2..Sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit for salvation
3. Faith in the truth of Jesus Christ
In v.14, the mention of being “called” to this very thing is to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the salvation process and the one and only method God has ordained by which people will be saved… the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Peace to you
Tea
Active Member
Correct.
Acts 17:29-31 (ESV)
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
The basis of their judgement will stem from their rejection of the Risen Savior, but they have to have knowledge of it for God to hold them accountable.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The fact you still deny clear scripture is really sad. Do you not think that God knows who is saved or not. Do you really think God got it wrong when He took Elijah and Enoch to heaven. Does God take the unsaved to heaven?
When did Elijah or Enoch hear the gospel message?
Your argument is based on your misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God.
So you do not have to believe me but you should believe the word of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You continue to make up your own theory of salvation.
Tea
Active Member
I agree; however, that doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone can respond positively to that knowledge.
God desires that His command to repent be proclaimed to everyone, but He may have the desire to give grace to one group and judge the other on that basis.
You have no idea to what "from the beginning" is referring to or what function the phrase serves in the sentence.
From the beginning of the New Covenant is the reference. An indirect object describes something about the recipients of the action. And in this case "when."
The rest of your post is just the same Calvinist fiction that has been shown to mangle scripture over and over. We were chosen through or based upon, some aspect of "faith in the truth." NOT chosen then given "faith in the truth." The claim is nonsense no rational mind would present.
1 Peter 2:9-10 NASB
But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; or you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
The passage is addressed to New Covenant, born anew believers. They have been called out of the realm of darkness into His marvelous l
The deniers make the false claim the passage is talking about choosing the seed of Abraham to bring the Messiah to humanity.
The audience is a "chosen people" for God's own possession (verse 9) but was once "not a people" chosen for His own possession. It those born anew had been chosen before creation INDIVIDUALLY then they would have always been a chosen people and would NEVER have been "not a people. However, since the election of Ephesians 1:4 is corporate, simply referring to the target group chosen in God's redemption plan, those His Redeemer might redeem, those believers whose faith God might credit as righteousness, there is no conflict with 1 Peter 2:9-10.
The same conclusion is also required by the fact, they had once not received mercy, but now have received mercy. Election for salvation is a merciful gift to those condemned due to sin.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Very clearly revealed from the text of scripture found in 2 Thessalonians. Your secular philosophy has blinded you to the truth.
Having eyes, you cannot see. Having ears, you cannot hear. Having a brain, you cannot think rationally. Everything is viewed through the lens of your man centered secular philosophy.
Always studying, never learning.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
“From the Beginning” in Jewish thought, refers to Genesis.
As I have stated in numerous occasions, when you are presented with the Truth of scripture, in context, that demonstrates your error, you attempt to change the meanings of the words to fit your secular philosophy, or you ignore key passages (sanctified by God Holy Spirit) or you simply dismiss the passage out of hand.
There can never be a serious discussion with someone whose approach to scripture is so foundational flawed as to make reasoning impossible.
At any rate, please stop repeating the falsehood that “Calvinists” have never explain certain passages to you. All the passages you misinterpret to support your flawed secular philosophy have been explained, in context, with abundant proof to anyone not blinded by bias, on many, many occasions.
With that, I will leave you to your latest attempt to destroy the Truth of the doctrines of grace.
Peace to you
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