When Will Obama's Wave Crash?

[JamieinNH]

You are making false statements, called lies. I never once compared him to the devil, but questioned if you would vote for the devil himself. I still wonder about that one.

I am not lying or making any false statements. This whole thread is about Obama, and you're the only one that had brought up the devil in this thread. Dan's post above shows you're not comparing anything, so that's a mut point.

You're as closely as you can without in fact calling him the devil, calling Obama the devil. To say otherwise is a lie.

I have questioned to find answers, its just you don't want no one talking about your Obama, so you make accusations.

Untrue.. I don't mind people asking questions.. Tim asked several and got an answer. What I DO mind is people that spread false information, lies and misunderstandings about Obama.

YYou do not have answers, so you accuse the one who questions.

I answered your question, and yet you avoid any questions posted to you... What are you afraid of in answering question posted to you? The truth?

You need to show why we should vote for Obama, instead of calling names because we ask questions about him.

First, where has anyone called you a name? Please post in this thread where you have been called a name or been rude too? Stop lying and trying to make me out to be something I am not.

As far as you wanting people to show you why you should vote for Obama... you're not really looking for a reason. In my opinion, you have made up your mind already. All anyone has to do it look over the Obama threads to see that.. Stop trying to pretend to be something you're not.

Jamie

 

[dan e.]

You're welcome!


BTW, given the choices now... how does Ron Paul look to you? :smilewinkgrin:

Jamie

I actually like Ron Paul. I like the way he handles himself, and like his experience. I'm not very knowledgeable about his thoughts on abolishing the irs, social security...my biggest thing with him is that I think he has it wrong about the middle east. He seems driven by our foreign policies, and that being the reason much of the middle east hates us. While it may have some weight to it, I think it disregards the fact that Islam, at its roots, is anti-christian, and will always have a militaristic mindset towards "infidels". I think he is blinded by not recognizing that terrorism isn't about policies...it's about the foundation of their faith.

 

[tinytim]

BTW, given the choices now... how does Ron Paul look to you? :smilewinkgrin:

Jamie

Better.. but see my previous post about splitting the vote with McCain....

A vote for Paul in the fall, would be a vote for a democrat...

 

[JamieinNH]

Yea, but according to you, Saddam was one of God's men.

God is in control, without a doubt.. For Saddam to be in power that long, had to be in God's plan... Have you read the OT at all? Good and Bad people were in power.. Great Kings... and yet all and all God was in Control.

Why are you questioning this, again, according to you this is one of God's men and we are supposed to pray for him to be able to carry out these things. So you would question the ways of God? You are speaking both ways.

BBob,

Again Bob... Even though God is in control, that doesn't mean man won't make any mistakes.. I am not speaking both ways, as you put it. I just believe that God is in control, and although man will make mistakes, that doesn't change the simple truth that God is in control.

So, I will ask you two questions again....

One, Do you believe that God helps elect our President?

Two, Is god in control of this world and everything that happens in it?

Jamie

 

[dan e.]

Here's a question for you Jamie, this is something I've been having a hard time reconciling with Obama.

How do explain your support of him (even though it is support considering the other options), when he has been decidedly supportive of partial birth abortion?

If he was pro-life...it would all but seal the deal for me. But that is diffiicult for me.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not lying or making any false statements. This whole thread is about Obama, and you're the only one that had brought up the devil in this thread. Dan's post above shows you're not comparing anything, so that's a mut point.
The devil was brought up, because you said that who ever got the presidency, it is of God.

You're as closely as you can without in fact calling him the devil, calling Obama the devil. To say otherwise is a lie.

What that supposed to mean, is that some unknown tongue or something?



Untrue.. I don't mind people asking questions.. Tim asked several and got an answer. What I DO mind is people that spread false information, lies and misunderstandings about Obama.

Show one lie about Obama, that I said that you can prove its a lie, please.


I answered your question, and yet you avoid any questions posted to you... What are you afraid of in answering question posted to you? The truth?

I tried to answer all your senseable questions, but wasn't too many of them.


First, where has anyone called you a name? Please post in this thread where you have been called a name or been rude too? Stop lying and trying to make me out to be something I am not.

As far as you wanting people to show you why you should vote for Obama... you're not really looking for a reason. In my opinion, you have made up your mind already. All anyone has to do it look over the Obama threads to see that.. Stop trying to pretend to be something you're not.

You opinion don't mean nothing, prove what you are saying or keep it to yourself.

Jamie

.....................

 

[JamieinNH]

Better.. but see my previous post about splitting the vote with McCain....

A vote for Paul in the fall, would be a vote for a democrat...

Not if Ron Paul was running as the GOP contender. ie replace McCain with Paul

Jamie

 

[tinytim]

Not if Ron Paul was running as the GOP contender. ie replace McCain with Paul

Jamie

That would be even a bigger miracle than Huckabee is looking for!!!!

I wonder what a brokered convention would do?

 

[Brother Bob]

God is in control, without a doubt.. For Saddam to be in power that long, had to be in God's plan... Have you read the OT at all? Good and Bad people were in power.. Great Kings... and yet all and all God was in Control.



Again Bob... Even though God is in control, that doesn't mean man won't make any mistakes.. I am not speaking both ways, as you put it. I just believe that God is in control, and although man will make mistakes, that doesn't change the simple truth that God is in control.

So, I will ask you two questions again....

One, Do you believe that God helps elect our President?

Two, Is god in control of this world and everything that happens in it?

Jamie

I will give you one answer to both questions.

God allows things to happen. It not His will that any would perish, but men sin anyway. God is not the Author of sin. If a leader cuts the heads off of the innocent, God had nothing to do with it. If a leader rapes all the young women around him, God had nothing to do with it. If a leader tells everyone to fall down and worship idols when the trumpet sounds, God had nothing to do with it.

Hope that answers your questions.

BBob,

BBob,

 

[JamieinNH]

Here's a question for you Jamie, this is something I've been having a hard time reconciling with Obama.

How do explain your support of him (even though it is support considering the other options), when he has been decidedly supportive of partial birth abortion?

If he was pro-life...it would all but seal the deal for me. But that is diffiicult for me.

I am sorry to say that I firmly believe that all the talk in Washington about abortion is nothing more than lip service. Look over either party and you can see that. The Repubicans had both the Congress and the WH for 6 years. What did they do? They had the perfect chance to make REAL change, not baby steps but real change.

Because of that, and because I don't think it will ever change that issue isn't an issue with me. Would I like abortion to completely stop? Yes. Will either party ever do it? No. Does that mean I should go with the party that more closely aligns with me even though I know they aren't really aligned with me? No.

I believe that as Christians, since we know the laws won't change we should work to change it another way. Reach people with Christ.. With Christ living in them, they will be against abortion. Work on more adoption programs, help people make that decision. (I was adopted). I am sure given time I can think of a lot of other ways to decrease abortion without changing the laws.

This is the reason I can support Obama even though he's by no means perfect. Of the three, he is the better choice.

Jamie

 

[rbell]

You got to be kidding, I suppose Israel was supposed to pray for Pharoh, while trying to escape from him. Come on, use a little common sense here.

BBob,

How about a little Scripture instead?

"I exhort therefore, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty." (1 Tim. 2:1,2)

Romans 13:1-7:
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Sorry, you're way off base on this one.

 

[JamieinNH]

That would be even a bigger miracle than Huckabee is looking for!!!!

I wonder what a brokered convention would do?

Not, sure but we can always hope!


Ron Paul for President!!

Jamie

 

[Brother Bob]

How about a little Scripture instead?





Sorry, you're way off base on this one.

that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty

I don't think so, take the whole scripture and does beheading the innocent "lead a quiet and peaceable life"?

Does it say God put them in power?

You bring God down to the level of the devil, who brought evil, not God.

4For he is God's servant to do you good

Saddam was not a servant of God, please!

Romans 13:1-7:
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right. Man, rightly divide the word of truth.

For He is God's servant to do you good.

It is a shame how scripture is used by some on this board. Do you honestly think this scripture actually fits Saddam and leaders like him, I think not. If they are of God, they only punish the wrongdoers. These leaders punished the innocent.

Can you with an honest conscious say that God gave Saddam the power to cut the heads of of the innoncent, and gas them.
Believe what you want, I do not believe that.

BBob,

 

[dan e.]

I am sorry to say that I firmly believe that all the talk in Washington about abortion is nothing more than lip service. Look over either party and you can see that. The Repubicans had both the Congress and the WH for 6 years. What did they do? They had the perfect chance to make REAL change, not baby steps but real change.

Because of that, and because I don't think it will ever change that issue isn't an issue with me. Would I like abortion to completely stop? Yes. Will either party ever do it? No. Does that mean I should go with the party that more closely aligns with me even though I know they aren't really aligned with me? No.

I believe that as Christians, since we know the laws won't change we should work to change it another way. Reach people with Christ.. With Christ living in them, they will be against abortion. Work on more adoption programs, help people make that decision. (I was adopted). I am sure given time I can think of a lot of other ways to decrease abortion without changing the laws.

This is the reason I can support Obama even though he's by no means perfect. Of the three, he is the better choice.

Jamie

Very interesting. That helps my thought process. Thanks.

Only God knows what decision I'll end up making. It's tough.

 

[Dr Mike Kear]

A vote for Paul in the fall, would be a vote for a democrat...

I'm not sure that this would be such a negative. The democratic candidate may be pro-choice, but McCain is both pro-abortion and has promised us unending war. He seems to be promising to offer our children to Molech through both unending abortion and unending wars.

“[C]ertainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to undergo illegal and dangerous operations.” -John McCain, 8/24/99, and repeated three other times during the campaign

"Make it a hundred...That would be fine with me." -John McCain, to a questioner who asked if he supported President Bush's vision for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq for 50 years

 

[JamieinNH]

The devil was brought up, because you said that who ever got the presidency, it is of God.

No, now you're changing your tune.. You said the devil was bought up for comparsion... You are trying to compare Obama to the devil. You are folling no one but yourself to say otherwise!

What that supposed to mean, is that some unknown tongue or something?

What is means is you're walking that tight line of honesty and lying. You know what it means, you're done it enough in this and other threads about Obama.

Nice try at a joke though, however I am sure people will see through you..

Show one lie about Obama, that I said that you can prove its a lie, please.

I will get back to you on this one.. I do notice you aren't arguing about spreading false information, or misunderstandings... I assume you're admiting those...

I tried to answer all your senseable questions, but wasn't too many of them.

Untrue... You answer the questions you see fit too. If a question has the potenital to show you wrong, you avoid it... It's called a dodge...

Besides, if the questions won't "senseable" then why did you bother to answer them in another post?

You opinion don't mean nothing, prove what you are saying or keep it to yourself.

Oh, you're one to talk! Why don't you keep your opinions of Obama to yourself?

Jamie

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
The devil was brought up, because you said that who ever got the presidency, it is of God.

Jamie:
No, now you're changing your tune.. You said the devil was bought up for comparsion... You are trying to compare Obama to the devil. You are folling no one but yourself to say otherwise!

Bob:
Not changing my tune, you just don't know the tune. I was simply telling you if the devil came along, would you vote for him also?

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
What that supposed to mean, is that some unknown tongue or something?

Jamie:
What is means is you're walking that tight line of honesty and lying. You know what it means, you're done it enough in this and other threads about Obama.

Nice try at a joke though, however I am sure people will see through you..

Bob:

No joke, you made false statement and are now trying to back up.

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Show one lie about Obama, that I said that you can prove its a lie, please.

Jamie:
I will get back to you on this one.. I do notice you aren't arguing about spreading false information, or misunderstandings... I assume you're admiting those...

Bob:
No, not admitting to nothing. There is not enough room to post all the news articles on Obama and Michelle and you know it. You just bury your head in the sand and stick your finger into the wind.

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
I tried to answer all your senseable questions, but wasn't too many of them.

Jamie:
Untrue... You answer the questions you see fit too. If a question has the potenital to show you wrong, you avoid it... It's called a dodge...

Besides, if the questions won't "senseable" then why did you bother to answer them in another post?

Bob:
You finally made them plain what you were asking and I gave you the answer, instead of admitting it, you say, well it don't count, because answered them in another post.

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You opinion don't mean nothing, prove what you are saying or keep it to yourself.

Jamie:
Oh, you're one to talk! Why don't you keep your opinions of Obama to yourself?

Jamie

Bob:
I posted Opinions and news articles, along with other brothers. You just can't take the truth.

How long do you think it will be before you cause another thread to be closed????

 

[just-want-peace]

Some very good points brought out in this thread; (a few roses among a multitude of thorns as it were) but, unfortunately, one theme seems to dominate - "the next president/congress will determine the fate of this nation".

To a large extent this IS true, and as a Christian basically the only thing I (you) can do is pray and vote responsibly.

Now praying is OK, but with the choices we apparently are going to have, how does one "vote responsibly" with a clear conscience?

I'm dead serious here, I don't see any redeeming qualities in any of the potentials to warrant me saying that if I vote for (?), that I am voting responsibly.

Much has been said and repeated that "GOD IS IN CONTROL", as if that means that we as Christians are to just sit back and let be what will be. The IMPLICATION in many instances is that everything is gonna be hunky-dory simply because "GOD IS IN CONTROL" !

Well, God was in control throughout ALL of Israel's history, and they sure had some, to put it mildly, rough times.

I personally believe that this is what we have in store for us, and should He delay His return, we as a nation, and Christians in particular, are in for some of those same rough times that the Israelite's encountered.

I once read or heard that God gives a nation the government that they deserve, and if true, we've had it.

Again, consider what we have (so far) to choose from come this November - don't look good for the future of this nation IMNSHO!!

So yes, God Is In Control, but that don't necessarily mean that He's gonna turn this land into "THE LAND OF MILK & HONEY" come next Janurary 20th. (No matter how popular any one of them is)

Our hope is in HIM, and HIM alone; NOT PAUL, McCAIN, OBAMA, CLINTON ETC., ETC.!

Hopefully we won't be around to see the total demise of this once great country, but if we are, I just pray that we are faithful to the end.

Barring a direct intervention from God Himself, our future just ain't pretty. And considering the state of morality/spirituality of us now, who can reasonably expect Him to intervene to avoid a disaster.

He was willing to save Sodom/Gomorrah for 10 righteous in the city, but they weren't there. Using the same ratio of righteous to the population, are there enough in America to save it???????

MARANATHA!!!!

 

[preachinjesus]

Do you think they were praying for the leader of Rome, while Jesus was being crucified. We must use the brain the Lord give us. I don't think we should pray for the devil, if he comes in power.

BBob,

Actually, this is exactly what I believe God would have us do. The devil is one thing, but men are another.

When Nero lit Christians alive and displayed them in his palace the devil wasn't the issue...Nero was the issue. Christians in that early formation of Christianity prayed for Nero to have a change of heart.

Violence and retribution are not Christian. We certainly have a brain to use and should be wise and discerning about those we involve ourselves with and we perceive those who are against us.

If a man comes and beats you on the face...what is Christ's way of handling that?

Besides, your correlation that Senator Obama is Satan is R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S and a perfect example of hypocrisy in this discussion.

 

[Brother Bob]

Actually, this is exactly what I believe God would have us do. The devil is one thing, but men are another.

So, if a "man" is a devil and you know it, should you vote for him to be president???

When Nero lit Christians alive and displayed them in his palace the devil wasn't the issue...Nero was the issue. Christians in that early formation of Christianity prayed for Nero to have a change of heart.

Were they praying for God to change Nero's heart or for Nero himself to change his heart. If he was a servant of God, then seems to me that they would have to pray to God, to change Nero's heart?

Violence and retribution are not Christian. We certainly have a brain to use and should be wise and discerning about those we involve ourselves with and we perceive those who are against us.

If a man comes and beats you on the face...what is Christ's way of handling that?

If a man broke into your house to rape your wife, what is God's way for you to handle that?

Besides, your correlation that Senator Obama is Satan is R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S and a perfect example of hypocrisy in this discussion.

I see you do not choose to see, that I said if the devil came along also, would that be God putting him in office. I made the statement, because the emphasis was made that Obama, may be sent of God. Well if the devil came along, did God send him also, is what I said. You make a false statement also, I hope its because of misunderstanding of what I actually said. I never once compared Obama to the devil. To insinuate that is to throw a "red herring" into the discussion, because you have nothing else left. If you did not make a mistake, then it is ridiculous and hyprocrisy on your part.

BBob,