Where Is Free Will?

[Pastor_Bob]

Of course, those who are against you must be redefining words....and only have one verse to hang a doctrine on...good grief.

Is there really such a thing as "good grief"?

And, if that's what you took away from my post, that is very disappointing.

 

[Reformed1689]

Is there really such a thing as "good grief"?

And, if that's what you took away from my post, that is very disappointing.

There was nothing else offered in the post that I quoted.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

All I have seen are verses taken out of context to support this idea. So please, show me something that actually asserts your position.

Okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are sincerely interested in the biblical support for this position. To begin the discussion, please define for me what you believe my position is on this matter; then, I will answer accordingly.

 

[Reformed1689]

Okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are sincerely interested in the biblical support for this position. To begin the discussion, please define for me what you believe my position is on this matter; then, I will answer accordingly.

Sure, I believe you stated it succinctly in the post below.

There is a very simple explanation for that - we do not believe that men actually have the will or desire to come to God, without God being the cause of it. We readily attest to the fact that God has to draw men before they can be saved. We differ in the scope of His drawing. We believe that all men are drawn and given an opportunity to be saved.

You believe that God draws all men (meaning every person from what I gather) to Himself to have an opportunity to be saved.

 

[loDebar]

of course rm and all on here cannot produce the one verse that speaks of free will,lol

All of Hebrews 11 is free will choices to believe

 

[Revmitchell]

The way you talk I think you believe that every Calvinist who passionately defends Scripture are cage-stage Calvinists.

"passionately" give me a break. "passion" is no excuse for being rude and those who are in the cage stage do not seem to know the difference. I have many calvie friends, most of which yalls posts as rude.

 

[Reformed1689]

"passionately" give me a break. "passion" is no excuse for being rude and those who are in the cage stage do not seem to know the difference. I have many calvie friends, most of which yalls posts as rude.

Truth cuts like a sword. I would say you have rude posts as well. Rude is a subjective term by the way.

 

[Revmitchell]

Truth cuts like a sword. I would say you have rude posts as well. Rude is a subjective term by the way.

I have been on this board for a long time. I have seen stage cage calvies some and go. You cage guys all say the same thing. Same excuses.

Don't forget to go back over to the DOG House forum and talk about us.

 

[37818]

Jesus said he did not judge man,, so it is not flesh here but ones, or souls or after physical death anyway

With explanation John 5:22, John 8:15-16, John 12:47-48.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

You believe that God draws all men (meaning every person from what I gather) to Himself to have an opportunity to be saved.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (KJV)
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (KJV) How many are lost? "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6 - KJV)

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (KJV)
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (KJV)

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (KJV) Every man is included in this "might be saved."

 

[InTheLight]

All I have seen are verses taken out of context to support this idea. So please, show me something that actually asserts your position.

 

[Reformed1689]

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (KJV)
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (KJV) How many are lost? "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6 - KJV)

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (KJV)
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (KJV)

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (KJV) Every man is included in this "might be saved."

None of these did what I asked. Show something that shows God actually draws every person to himself. Not one of these verses did that.

 

[Reformed1689]

Don't forget to go back over to the DOG House forum and talk about us.

What makes you think I do this in the first place? Because I don't.

 

[Reynolds]

No, they are hated because people see them as unfair or unjust.

Calvinism is no more"unfair or unjust" than Arminianism is. (Assuming God could be unjust which he can't)

 

[Reynolds]

The point is then, that they are not "free" to love and serve God, are they?

Free to, but lacking the ability to.

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinism is no more"unfair or unjust" than Arminianism is. (Assuming God could be unjust which he can't)

I was just commenting as to the real reason people seem to hate the Doctrines of Grace.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

None of these did what I asked. Show something that shows God actually draws every person to himself. Not one of these verses did that.

I'm sorry that you seem to be unable to connect the dots, my friend. The problem may very well be in what one considers as being "drawn." God does not "drag" anyone to salvation, but rather He enables all to be saved. All of the verse I quoted above support the idea that God enables "all men" to be saved. The atonement is not limited, election is not unconditional, and His grace is certainly not irresistible.

 

[Reformed1689]

considers as being "drawn." God does not "drag" anyone to salvation

You need to do a study on the underlying Greek for draw. You are actually wrong on this one.

All of the verse I quoted above support the idea that God enables "all men" to be saved.

Not one of those verses stated that in the slightest.

 

[InTheLight]

You need to do a study on the underlying Greek for draw. You are actually wrong on this one.

Those who disagree with our position have the luxury of redefining words

Where Is Free Will?

 

[Reynolds]

None of these did what I asked. Show something that shows God actually draws every person to himself. Not one of these verses did that.

Jn 12:32
I know what the response will be; "all" really means all the elect.