What? No answer? Anyone? Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?
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Why Do People Hate Calvinst?
- Thread starter Shortandy
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Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
You add the smileys , TCassidy, but do you believe that someone who is not a Calvinist is a universalist? or is not preaching the Gospel?
That is why I keep asking the questions! If you don't believe the Atonement is limited, then you are a universalist. EVERYBODY limits the Atonement except a few wack jobs who think even Satan will eventually be saved. I limit the Atonement to believers. If you don't then please explain to me how that position differs from the universalist position. And, yes, I believe the universalist gospel is a false gospel.
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You crack me up! I love having you around, Dr. Cassidy! :laugh:
Jim, well stated. Can't add anything else. Well, except this:
And I've seen numerous ones who do not hold the doctrines of grace who are extremely arrogant and hard-hearted toward those that don't agree. It is a pox on both houses.
I think it goes to the OP. Some people hate Calvinism because they are...well....haters
You know the type. They hate anything they don't love. There's no room under their tent for anything that doesn't fit between the erasers and the Chiclets (Quick: can anyone name the movie this phrase comes from?)
You know the type. They hate anything they don't love. There's no room under their tent for anything that doesn't fit between the erasers and the Chiclets (Quick: can anyone name the movie this phrase comes from?)
It's hilarious...personal attacks (gospel of men, false gospel). Are you going to hold TC to the same standards as the non reformed here on the BB, or are you going to just let his vitriolic, "insulting" comments stand without taking action since he's also on your "team"?
It's been explained to you, you just don't like the explanation.That is why I keep asking the questions! If you don't believe the Atonement is limited, then you are a universalist. EVERYBODY limits the Atonement except a few wack jobs who think even Satan will eventually be saved. I limit the Atonement to believers. If you don't then please explain to me how that position differs from the universalist position. And, yes, I believe the universalist gospel is a false gospel.
I'll go on record as saying I don't "hate" Calvinism. Do I think it's the correct soteriological understanding of Scripture? No. My pastor is a calvinist...there is much more that goes into attending a church than what the pastor's soteriology is. Based on how I've been treated here the past couple weeks, I think it could be argued that "hate" seems to flow quite easily from the reformed "team".
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Have you been a Calvinist long? If so, you should be used to it by now.
Calvinism* is the Gospel. Anything else is not the Gospel. That's why.
*No, I'm not going to litter my post with disclaimers.
Cassidy is a prime example as to why some non-Calvinists have a bad taste. He all but called me a universalist simply because I have trouble accepting his version of "L" . And he wonders why some have a bad taste in their mouth. I've never personally known a five pointer who was not gracious. We agreed to disagree and went on serving the Lord.
Shortandy, I think you're being too hard on the family that left. I doubt that they hate you, they just don't think you are preaching the truth. It happens all the time in many churches for a lot of reasons.
However, this is an area that can and should be resolved before answering a call. We called a new pastor recently and the church had given the search committee a list of deal breakers. At the top of the list was adherence to Calvinism. They were instructed to ask the candidate about his views on Calvinism and if he was a five pointer or otherwise espoused reformed theology, to move on to someone else. A church has a right to hire a pastor who agrees with its theology.
However, this is an area that can and should be resolved before answering a call. We called a new pastor recently and the church had given the search committee a list of deal breakers. At the top of the list was adherence to Calvinism. They were instructed to ask the candidate about his views on Calvinism and if he was a five pointer or otherwise espoused reformed theology, to move on to someone else. A church has a right to hire a pastor who agrees with its theology.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad. The Gospel is salvation by grace through faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Man's understanding of the mechanics involved is NOT the gospel.
Are you suggesting that works salvation (gospel of men) and universalism (false gospel) are correct?
I must have missed your explanation. Do you believe that everybody without exception will be saved or do you, like me, limit the Atonement to believers?
Re: Lack of forthrightness by Calvinist ministerial candidates
The OP pastor posted this two years ago, after he had been called to the church.
The OP pastor posted this two years ago, after he had been called to the church.
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No, sag, I asked you a question. I did not call you anything. I stated that a person who believes in unlimited atonement, IE that all people everywhere without exception will be saved, is a universalist. I asked you if you believed that or, like me, believe the atonement is limited to believers only.
Amen!
All are sinners and nobody has anything so good about them that they are worthy of salvation. T
No sinner meets any condition of righteousness that merits salvation. U
Only believers will have their sins forgiven. L
No believer will resist the drawing of the Lord unto damnation. I
No believer will lose his salvation because he is preserved unto the end. P
Glad we agree!
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
That is why I keep asking the questions! If you don't believe the Atonement is limited, then you are a universalist. EVERYBODY limits the Atonement except a few wack jobs who think even Satan will eventually be saved. I limit the Atonement to believers. If you don't then please explain to me how that position differs from the universalist position. And, yes, I believe the universalist gospel is a false gospel.
Of course, universalism is heretical. I believe that the atonement is limited in its effect but not in its possibility. Christ died for the sins of the world, but his death is only effective for those who believe.
btw, congratulations on making 25 years in the same church!
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